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Wanting to buy an AR as a gift and was told it was a straw purchase?!?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by FuriousGeorge, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. FuriousGeorge

    FuriousGeorge Member

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    I'm in NC and want to buy my adult nephew a graduation present. He lives in the Salt Lake area, so I called the most popular LGS there and explained to them what I wanted to do: Pay for the weapon and have my nephew come by so they can run the paperwork on him before he takes possession. I was told it was a straw purchase! In fact, they said it would be better if I bought it myself then give it to him. This runs counter to what I've always believed a straw purchase was. I spoke with two people there and got the same explanation. have I been wrong all these years?
     
  2. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    Yep. I used to work part time in a shop. No way I'd have done this. IIRC, it has to be husband/wife or father/son type situation.
     
  3. Arizona_Mike

    Arizona_Mike Member

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    While I don't think what you are proposing is a straw purchase, gifts are not straw purchases so there is no reason to do something so convoluted.

    95+% of questions about Form 4473 asked in gun forums are answered in the instructions on the back of the Form 4473.

    Mike

    PS. There is nothing in the law about only giving gifts to relatives (close or not) or whether the recipient of the gift is present or absent when buying the gun. It just has to be a legitimate gift (no reimbursement or trade).
     
  4. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    Either outright buy him the gun or just give him the money to buy it himself.
     
  5. cuervo

    cuervo Member

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    It is only a gift if you purchase it and then give it to him. Since it is out of state, you have to send the rifle you just bought in NC to a dealer in UT for a transfer to him. You don't have to make any mention of a gift or his relation to you--you are transferring a firearm interstate and that's it. Passing NICS would then be up to him on his end.

    You could also just give him a graduation present of $700+ and let him go buy what he wants--which just happens to be that AR15 in the window.
     
  6. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    This is the easiest way for sure.
    Gifting is not a straw purchase. Just buy it and give it to him.

    Awesome gift BTW. Lucky nephew.
     
  7. Midwest

    Midwest Member

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    Since the gun is a long gun, and long guns can be bought in other states through an FFL.

    The OP can go to Salt Lake City.

    Buy the gun there in SLC from an FFL.

    Hand over the gun to the nephew in SLC.
    .
     
  8. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    Going all the way to Utah doesn't seem like the easy way to do this.
     
  9. Midwest

    Midwest Member

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    The OP can buy it in NC, and ship it to an FFL in SLC.
    .
     
  10. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    It's a technicality, but what you are proposing is not a lawful sale. As you can see in what Arizona Mike posted, the part that matters is that the person filling out the 4473 is the person handing the money to the FFL.

    Perfectly legal for you to buy it and gift it to him (though interstate transfers from one private party to another must go through FFL, gift or not), also legal for you to give him the money to buy it. But him filling out the form and you paying is not lawful. Stupid, yes, but that's how it is.
     
  11. SnowBlaZeR2

    SnowBlaZeR2 Member

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    This is what I'd recommend.
     
  12. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Gifting is a better choice. There are only a handful of circumstances where the paperwork (NICS) and payment are done with two different people. I remember buying 3 handguns with my card but my girlfriend (now wife) did the NICS check.
     
  13. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    One person doing the NICS while another pays for and takes possession is blatantly illegal. I would most highly discourage that practice. That is the textbook definition of a straw purchase. When the 4473 says "are you the actual purchaser of this firearm?" and she marked it "yes", it is perjury.
     
  14. Warp

    Warp Member

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    These laws are so stupid. Seriously.

    Also, as for the ability to purchase a long gun in other states...keep in mind that this depends on state law. Not all states allow people from just any other state to buy a long gun there.
     
  15. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    Buy the gun, fill out the 4473, then have your dealer ship it to his FFL, and he does 4473 when picking his gift up. No laws are broken, everyone's happy. You'll probably have to pay sales tax though.
     
  16. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    Federal law, shipping between states. Gotta do the 4473 thing (Federal NICS)

    And, whether you think the laws are right or not, if you decide to ignore them you could have maybe 5 to 10 years to contemplate the error of your ways.
     
  17. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    What a tangled web we weave...with landmines, too!

    TCB
     
  18. Warp

    Warp Member

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    I was responding mostly to this:

    I'm just pointing out that this isn't something that is guaranteed to work with any state, because not all states allow somebody from just any other state to buy a long gun there.

    What you are referring to is shipping a long gun between states. Totally different than buying a long gun outside your state of residence.


    Of course.

    But they ARE stupid.
     
  19. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    gift certificate solves the problem
     
  20. Scooter22

    Scooter22 Member

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    Tell him to find out what he wants and send him the money. Let him purchase it himself. Seems pretty simple.
     
  21. FuriousGeorge

    FuriousGeorge Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I've never done this type of transaction before, and my understanding (up until now) is that the person taking possession is the one filling out the paperwork. I was unaware that the buyer had to fill out a 4473 even if he had no intention of possessing it. That was my disconnect. I'll just send him a Visa Cash card, and he can apply it to something of his choosing.

    I learn something new everyday!
     
  22. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    I think you made the right and most expedient choice under the circumstances. If he has problems buying for some reason (like not being 18 yet), he can give the money to his Dad and Dad can gift it to junior.
     
  23. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Not according to the FFL we bought from. We were both in store and I never even fired the weapons until I became a resident of AL.
     
  24. pharmer

    pharmer Member

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    At the gunshow a couple of weeks back, I watched a guy make a gift of a brandy new S&W MP15 to my friend. Paid for it (at the largest local FFL who owns half the show) with a credit card that was declined 3 times before it went through. My friend filled out the 4473 and was the "actual purchaser." It's irrelevant who pays for it. Joe
     
  25. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    The Visa cash card was a good way to handle it. Nice gift, BTW.
     
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