Warfarin approved to help control wild hogs.....your thoughts?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Flintknapper, Feb 22, 2017.

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  1. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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  2. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    Can't think of a joke referencing Carrie...(because of all the pig's blood, you see). I also can't imagine how messy a big hog full of rat-poison must be *yuk

    When it comes to eliminating pests --which, let's all remember, is what this is all about, and not sport hunting/recreation-- poisons are always more effective than hunting/trapping because they work 24/7 and there's always more available for the job. The only complaints I'm hearing are from sportsmen concerned that the move isn't taking hunting sensibilities into account with this decision.

    While it won't be popular to say it on a hunting forum; who cares about their worries. The hogs are doing tons of damage on private property, it behooves those liable to take the most efficient manner available to deal with the threat. Warfarin supposedly kills the pigs with minimal impact to other species in the ecosystem, it will be used almost exclusively on private land (since it's basically the only kind here), the liberal hunting policies in place currently for hogs are explicitly due to their status as an extremely destructive pest deserving elimination by as aggressive of methods as possible.

    Heck, recreational hog hunting has been repeatedly shown to spread boar infestation (because people import them or sustain/grow populations through feeding) through the profit motive. Same thing we see keeping otherwise-endangered populations healthy or growing in Africa & elsewhere every day.

    If Texas makes it illegal to pay people for exclusive hog-hunting access (meaning every hogger has to bother to get a deer/etc permit), and legalizes poisoning like this, it stands a far better shot of actually accomplishing something. In the end, the only real solution is the destruction of their habitat, as we've seen that very effectively destroys even large populations of animals over time. But pigs are more adaptable than most, so even that isn't a given.

    TCB
     
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  3. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    As long as people are willing to spend thousands of dollars for helicopter hunts the will be will be wild hogs.
     
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  4. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Moderator In Memoriam

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    I don't see why there would be a problem. Those who want to eat hog meat won't use Warfarin. Where it's used, it might affect buzzards and coyotes, maybe, but I don't know that as fact.
     
  5. JeffG

    JeffG Member

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    The by-kill might be brutal. Unintended targets are always a problem with poison.
     
  6. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    i'm neutral on this one at the present time. Finally woke up and realized i've been feeding and raising hogs that get trap shy. Except for one fenced feeder they are getting shut off. Got some snares on the way too.
     
  7. Paul7

    Paul7 Member

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    How do you know the hog you're eating didn't have any of this poison?
     
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  8. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    Any significant amount will turn the fat of the animal a blue color. Lesser amounts are 'supposedly' not a concern.
     
  9. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    Warfarin is a pretty well-studied chemical, been around forever. From what I understand, mammals with blood chemistry similar to our own are the most susceptible, and there aren't that many. I guess rats that feed on the pigs would get killed pretty effectively --hard to see that as anything but a bonus, though. What I'm trying to say is, that if professionals knowledgeable about the use of this chemical as a pesticide are confident it will have few ill effects, I'm more inclined to believe them than some of the 'new' friendlier ideas that have also been pitched such as putting birth control hormones in their food sources (you want to talk about something with huge downstream effects).

    Not to mention any hogs that feed on other hogs' carcasses will be poisoned --also a bonus (I always wonder about the guys that blow away eight hogs & just leave them to rot out in the woods, whether they're just feeding the remaining sounder for a few days before the next two litters of twelve hogs arrive)

    Think of it this way; hogs are oversized roaches or rats. Do you eliminate roach/rat infestations with traps? Or poison?

    As with all pesticides, I suspect the real risk is poor safety practices by people distributing the chemical.

    TCB
     
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  10. Stony

    Stony Member

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    I have no doubt this poisoning thing will be battered around until most folks just get tired of arguing potential risks of it. My problems with this sort of thing is the amount of misinformation that will be spread in support of or against trying to poison a species out of existence. Just as the news associations are doing with spreading uninformed theories and accusations about our current administration...people will spread facts and figures that have no real basis to back up their current agenda.
    For instance...the statement about hogs eating other hogs....I would consider it as just another attempt to inflame the issues through misinformation. I have killed more hogs than most hunters and will continue to do so. I have an area where I dump the carcasses for the buzzards and coyotes to devour. I have left cameras in that area and have yet to see one hog eating on a carcass. Perhaps it could happen....but I doubt anyone using this as an argument can support their statement by actual facts, other than something stated by someone else.
    We constantly see statements published as facts about how many millions of dollars of damage hogs do annually to any given area....and I know of no way this can be verified. Do a group of people sit down at a table and debate how many millions they will put in their latest statements. I can see no way any of these statements can be verified, and cannot put any confidence in a governmental agencies that use fabrications as facts.
    I am not in any way against controlling a species of animal that is out of control and causing damage. But I am not in a position to just agree that putting a lethal substance into our animals ecosystems is a good thing, based on some guys whims and misconceptions.
     
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  11. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    No
    I think it's a bad idea to use poison.
    The collateral could be huge.

    There was a farmer in my area that was having a problem with raccoons. He decided to bait them with corn laced with a certain well known fly control pesticide. He placed the concoction near the Woods where the raccoons were coming from. He literally had dozens of dead raccoons, deer possums, skunks laying in a radius of the poison.
    A coon hunter saw the carnage and turn it in.
    The DNR nailed him good.
     
  12. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    I've been following this for some time time now. Australia has been using it for over a decade, now. From what I have read is it breaks down and there is no trace after 90 min once a hog dies. The way is is dispensed in in Hog feeders to keep deer out of it. This is the only way I see that we can get some kind of control on the wild hogs. There multiplying way faster than we can thin them. Yes it does get the coons too but they are becoming a big problem in my area. So thinning them down would be a good thing.
     
  13. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Hog Gone has been tested in the US and used in Australia. The killing agent in Hog Gone is sodium nitrate. Hog Gone does not contain warfarin.

    www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/publications/12pubs/fager...
     
  14. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    I'd rather NOT see it happen. Sorry for those with pig damaged pastures, but I ain't one for introducing chemicals in to my food chain.
     
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  15. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Moderator In Memoriam

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    I doubt that anybody finding a dead hog is going to have it as part of his diet. :)

    I'm somewhat curious as to whether any one scavenger would eat enough of a poisoned hog to in turn suffer ill effect.

    But for now, it's all just speculation.
     
  16. Stony

    Stony Member

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    Hogs tend to hang around water quite a lot....what happens when a poisoned one urinates in the vicinity of the water? There are too many unanswered questions about the use of a chemical designed to make rats bleed out internally, to introduce it into our ecosystem. A big concern in California these days is cow flatulence....now how can a government show such concern over a cow passing gas and not care about putting rat poison out there? Maybe we can find an effective way to keep bobcats and other meateaters away from the carcasses of the poisoned hogs?....not hardly !
     
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  17. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^ I wonder if you have Warfarin confused with Sodium Nitrite (which does break down quickly)?
     
  18. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Let's think about this.....
    Poison in a outdoor, uncontrolled feeder.

    What could possibly go wrong?
     
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  19. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    I don't know the pharmacology of Warfarin. Most medications are changed by passing through the stomach and intestines and the net result MAY be that the effects are neutralized. If that is the case, then other predators or scavengers wouldn't be affected. However, the bait would have to be placed so that only hogs would eat it to keep non-targeted animals from dying from internal bleeding. I believe that it's almost impossible not to have collateral killing due to the carelessness of the people placing the bait.

    The ideal poison would be one that is species specific. Good luck with that.
     
  20. VThillman

    VThillman Member

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    Warfarin is obviously not hog-specific poison. According to the warnings on the containers used for mouse/rat killing, it can kill secondary intakers. like cats and dogs. This is a really stupid idea.
     
  21. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/02/23/hog-apocalypse-texas-has-a-new-weapon-in-its-war-on-feral-pigs-its-not-pretty/

    ^^^^^^^^^^ Interesting read. Clearly a difference of opinions.

    From what I've read about the bait and the delivery system, it just seems flawed in many ways.

    I get the feeling the system was somehow fast tracked and that making money is more the objective than effectively reducing the hog population. The system just would not work in many places. It is quite labor intensive to use (if used as prescribed).

    Its seems curious to me that the sister company to the company that did the 'research' is the only place (at present) that would sell the products! When the same company(s) that test a product are also the ones advertising and selling it....it just makes you wonder how accurate their claims are. Color me skeptical.

    There are just so many considerations besides whether or not the product will kill hogs. Worthy of discussion, I think.
     
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  22. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    Copper encapsulated lead in 55- 255 grain doses.
     
  23. Dog Soldier

    Dog Soldier member

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    When the first Eagle dies from consuming "Poisoned Pork" all Hell will come down on Hog hunting. No lead bullets very controlled hunting seasons. These never work according to PETA. "SO" then they become an endangered species. :eek:
     
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  24. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Exactly! It's already pretty cheap to book a hog hunt vs deer or GAME animals or exotics. I know hunting cannot hope to eradicate pigs, but heck, I don't want 'em eradicated, anyway. Free range pork year around. But, I only own 13 acres and don't care if the hogs root it up. I have a disc I can straighten it back out with. I know ranchers and farmers hate the things, but if they hate 'em THAT bad, they can give ME and other responsible hunters permission to thin 'em out. I might even buy/build a few more traps if I had more acres to put 'em on and I'd run 'em and bait 'em for free. :D
     
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  25. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    Yes, I think I did.

    I know the state has been working on this project for nearly 10 yrs now. I know that they have to test every possible reaction of any other animal getting into it and scavengers.
     
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