Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by elano, Apr 20, 2011.
Elano - if you still have that box, please post the LOT NUMBER of that batch!
elano's ammo problems all seem to be a very specific type of problem that occurs during the seating process. The notion that there may be other things wrong with the rounds because of a seating problem is pretty far-fetched. If you want to argue about everything not seen, then potentially any ammo that looks good might be defective. Without taking the cartridge apart, do you ever really know how much powder is in it? No.
QC in factories? You mean like with American cars in the 1970s, 80s, and early 90s? You like with Colt in the 1970s during the same people on their pistols?
QC has always been an ongoing problem. It is the nature of what it is.
My guess is that it's only a matter of time before a case failure blows somebody's barrel up in their hands.
And look what happened to the American car companies in recent years and what happened to colt. I suspect the same will eventually happen to Winchester.
I have a Model 61 that shows true craftsmanship. I also have several Winchester shotguns made in the 60s and 70s and they also have a look and feel to them of real quality.
I have held and examined a few new winchester rifles recently and they are lacking IMO. Pushing out more quantinty at the expense of quality, and the ammo found in this thread solidify my beliefs.
No, I mean like American cartridges being made here in American factories!
I never mentioned automobiles - which have thousands of more moving parts than a simple pistol/rifle cartridge with a primer. QC for live ammunition shouldn't be that difficult in ensuring reliability ... SO LONG AS ... everybody along the line is performing his/her job.
It's truth I have to point out here: Since 1997 I have been buying Winchester 5.56 mm for my AR and .40 S&W for my M&P. Out of perhaps 15,000-20,000 rounds total between the two I never faced one single misfire, and the pistol ammo is pretty accurate. If it has been that accurate along the way for me up until now and is suddenly beginning to climb in failure rates, perhaps departments within need some serious looking into.
Why do people want to readily adopt a philosophy of: "As time goes on we should all de-evolve from product quality and yet evolve in quantity over quality." Have we been THAT PROGRAMMED?? I would like to believe we are not "Chicom" here ... not yet at least. Give it another 14, perahps 15 years .....
That's utter rubbish!
I try to buy the Federal Champion from WM whenever they have it in stock.
seems like the more expensive WWB got, the worse the quality got lol
incidentally, all ammo/gun makers have suffered QC problems to one degree or another since Obozo was elected and there are record sales. however, i've heard the most about WWB, like squib loads, duds, etc. so i won't buy that brand anymore.
on a related note, here's an upside down loaded 9mm federal HST round i found in my box lol:
Shot over a thousand rounds of .40 S&W WWB and they were all fine as well.
To someone who doesn't reload a variance of .030" doesn't mean much. But as an example, a 9mm round that is seated .030" deeper than listed can more than double the chamber pressures from a normal 28,000 to over 62,000 PSI. Don't get me started on this topic. Factory ammunition is loaded to a spec. that is considered one size fits all. Whats even more is, many shooters think that higher priced top shelf factory is going to be a high quality product, nothing could be further from the truth.
Personally, I like Remington Ammunition. I use Remington UMC for my 9mm Browning Hi-power and .44 Rem/mag for my lever action rifle and experience no problems. I also use .22 Remington ammo in my Ruger Mark I Standard automatic and have had great success with it. I quit using Winchester ammo years ago because I found it left more residue than I cared to deal with, especially in the automatic pistols, but I never experienced the probs some of the writers here have. Looks like I left them in time. Remington is much cleaner, IMHO. Also, I purchase my ammo at Walmart and save lots of money-less than 2 bucks for a box of 50 .22s. The 250 round bulk-pack of UMC 9mm at Walmart is also very economical.
Incidents like these are the primary reason i use handloads in self defense guns.
with the cost of HST's, and them being a "premium" round and/or carry round if you might say, i would have been PISSED.
what did they do to fix it?
The production line must be designed so that is impossible for a defective product to be produced.
Ammunition may seem simple compared to a car, but its production is done at some of the highest speeds of any products; possibly cigarettes or food and beverage cans are faster.
Sounds like WW has a serious problem with their production process. In a modern facility, it seems like it would take a conscious decision to ALLOW these defective products to ship.
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