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Warning: Do not use Tula .308!!! This is why!!!

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Jackal, Mar 11, 2012.

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  1. Jackal

    Jackal Member

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    Warning: Do not use Tula .308!!! *Edited* with Tula Customer Service Update

    EDIT: After contacting customer service and sending them my pictures, they have happily agreed to pay for the damaged rifle, either fix it or replace it, whichever the local gunsmith suggests. They will refund the leftover ammo and my first aid supply costs (fairly minimal, but still...). Upon further inspection, I have found that the rear of the locking lugs, buttstock end, appears to have been damaged. There is new, shiny damaged steel in the lug recess's. The over pressure round appears to have set back the bolt. Bolt setback is not good. But, I am so far pleased with the customer service. They have found the round to be faulty and they will pay the damages to make me whole. Cant ask for much more than that.



    Today, after shooting many of my rifles at the local gravel pit range, I decided to pull out my Ishapore 2A1 .308 (ya, 7.62, I know and this is not the place to debate this). I have nearly 1,000 rounds through this rifle, brass case surplus, commercial ammo, Brown Bear steel case, etc. Today, I decided to try Tula... Never again. On the 7th round, the report was much louder, the recoil much heavier and I had a pain in my arm and my cheek and my hat went flying. I opened the bolt (no resistance) to find a complete case head separation. Thank god the Enfield has good gas flow. My left wrist is now burnt and I have many tiny pieces of metal/residue stuck under the skin. I treated it immediately with my first aid kit (yes, I always have one). My rifle blew the magazine out of the bottom, damaged the ejector and the ejector cut in the barrel. I have already sent Tula a message detailing the unpleasant experience. I have not yet decided to go to the hospital or not yet, to get the debris removed (cant really afford it). I am awaiting their response. I have pictures and an eye witness. I am not a happy camper.

    Do not use this ammunition, I noticed it has a surprisingly high risk of failure after looking around online at various other over charged rounds of the same type. This thread is useless without pictures, so here they are, of the rifle and my arm.

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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2012
  2. Hollerpoint

    Hollerpoint Member

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    That is not good. I'm glad you are ok mostly. Ive sent a lot of Tula down the tube without a problem, but this makes me wary. If you will go to the trouble to find out what other labels Tula ammo may carry I'm willing to avoid shooting this stuff.
     
  3. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Member

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    Glad you are ok. As for medical attention, just keep some antibiotic ointment on it and watch for infection. Any particles will eventually migrate to the top. There are some Nam Vets that are still picking out tiny bits of shrapnel to this day.
     
  4. spikedzombies

    spikedzombies Member

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    I've sent 200+ rounds of tula 308 down the tube of my savage bolt action without any problems. I use it to get on paper when zeroing and plinking short distances.

    "Sent while riding my purple unicorn bareback through the clouds"
     
  5. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    That is a very interesting place for a case failure. And it apperars to be just that a complete case failure.

    Just thank your stars you weren't shooting a small ring Mauser

    posted via mobile device.
     
  6. SlowFuse

    SlowFuse Member

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    Glad this didn't turn out worse. Hopefully they'll make good on this. I've always wondered how their (russian, serbian etc) coverage would be if there's a factory error that causes damage.
     
  7. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    My last one came out in 08.

    Clean the area well and often. Any sign of infection see a MD.
     
  8. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

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    Heres how I see it. Now I'm an Enfield shooter, no Ishapore but a couple No 1's and a few No 4's and I have had a few case head separations, all were with reloaded ammo that was full length resized and shot in a rifle that had a generous chamber.

    Steel cased ammo does not stretch as good as brass. Your shooting steel cased ammo in a rifle that may have a chamber that is on the large side and the head space may be on the long side. Add the two together with steel cased ammo and the steel case could not stretch enough and failed at the case head.

    Sorry for your injury and bad experience and I hope you heal quickly and get your rifle back together. I really don't think it was just the ammo, I think it was a combination of a number of things and the platform you were shooting it out of.
     
  9. Kachok

    Kachok Member

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    Dang, never had that happen, I did have a Winchester 130gr 270 blow the primer out, but it did not hurt me.
     
  10. Freedom_fighter_in_IL

    Freedom_fighter_in_IL Member

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    Have to agree with Jeff here. I have a strong feeling that it was a combination of all said there. It's why I would never shoot steel cased ammo out of any of my Enfield rifles. I usually only neck size my reloads on fire formed brass for this very reason. I personally don't think it was an overcharge simply from the minimal damage. A true overcharge would have done a LOT more damage than that.
     
  11. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    You should consult with an MD regarding the implications of that metal in your skin, and future MRIs.

    Glad you were not injured more seriously.

    Geno
     
  12. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Ill bet the OP is OK wrt metal in his skin simply because as you can see from the pics pretty much all the case is accounted for with nothing missing.

    posted via mobile device.
     
  13. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Member

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    Like others have said, steel ammo and excessive headspace (and think about, the have different size bolt heads for a reason) something Enfeilds are KNOWN for.

    I would say it's a platform incompatibility, hell enfeilds are know for eating brass by stretching out the web until you risk failure on reloads.

    Feed the steel case to an autoloader (G3 anybody) and you'll be fine.
     
  14. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    A strong magnet might remove any steel particles.
     
  15. Dmitri Popov

    Dmitri Popov Member

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    Three things:
    1. Sorry for your injury but I do agree with the above, it was most likely a combo of problems.
    2. Herter's ammo is tula made, says so on head stamp.
    3. To remove the metal, take a good sized potato, cut in half, place the cut open part on your injury where the metal fragments are. Leave it for about half bour or so, the potato will draw out the pieces of metal. You'll see them stuck on the potato lookin like glitter. Its an old metal workin trick, worked for my buddy darn well to get metal bits out of his EYE! Lol...
     
  16. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

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    An MRI is a very strong magnet! His injury's look like powder burns with possibly a little molten metal splatter mixed in. Just keep it clean and use a topical antibiotic ointment and watch for infection.
     
  17. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    Another good reason not to buy bagged ammo at a gun show
     
  18. 68wj

    68wj Member

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    Never seen a case fail at that spot. Glad you are okay.
     
  19. ObsidianOne

    ObsidianOne Member

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    Wow, glad you're okay. Looks like it could have been a lot worse.
    Russians need to stick to their own ammo! :p

    And for the sake of a smile, in Soviet Russia, gun shoots you!

    I believe there are certain types of Herters that is made in the US, not Tula made; I recall reading it in a magazine, FWIW.
    But I believe it was just some pistol calibers.

    Very interesting technique. I wonder what would cause the steel to be attracted to the potato? :p
     
  20. kozak6

    kozak6 Member

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    The Ishapore Enfields are well known for having or developing excessive headspace.

    Case head separations are a sign of excessive headspace.

    Chances are, the problem is with your rifle instead of the ammo. You can check other previously fired cases for signs of impending separation, if you would like.

    It would be worthwhile to have a gunsmith check the headspace.
     
  21. M1key

    M1key Member

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    Ishapore.

    Enfields are a bit notorious for generous headspace. More than likely the problem, not the ammo. For future reference, have a gunsmith check any Enfield for headspace prior to shooting.

    Glad you are okay.

    M
     
  22. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    Glad you will be OK. Things could have turned out very badly.

    i've fired a few thousand rounds of Tula .308 through my Remington 700 rifles with no ill effects.

    The Enfield is marginal for the .308 to begin with; couple that with that fact many Enfields have headspace problems, add a steel cased round: There is a recipe for a potential disaster.
     
  23. CmdrSlander

    CmdrSlander Member

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    Go to your doctor about the metal shavings! I would if I had foreign materials embedded under my skin, I'm not saying you are in great danger but no matter the situation it is better to know for sure.
     
  24. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    I dont own an Enfield but if I do at some point I am glad I read this thread. Didn't know there was head spacing problems with them. Everything has quirks
     
  25. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

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    Yes, but make sure they are versed on Enfields and use the proper head space gauge. Its not a SAAMI .308 gauge but a military spec one.
     
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