Warning for ZevTech Glock owners.

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Acera, Jun 5, 2017.

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  1. Acera

    Acera Member

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  2. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    I've never been a fan of drop in trigger packs or the like.

    I'll continue to stick with guns that have adequate triggers from the factory. If I feel like I need something extra special, I'll leave it with a professional and have it properly done. I'll more likely end up with a better trigger that'll be more dependable.
     
  3. M1key

    M1key Member

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    Leave. It. Stock.

    M
     
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  4. JO JO

    JO JO Member

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    I agree 100%
     
  5. Acera

    Acera Member

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    He did not do any of the modifications himself, he bought it that way. The work on the gun was done by Zev Tech, then sold. So not the fault of end user. He bought a high end handgun that appears was not safe from the gunsmiths that reworked the Glock.



    M1key/JoJo, are all your firearms stock? I think you are in the minority here if that is so.

    From his facebook posting.

    .
     
  6. JO JO

    JO JO Member

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    call me strange but yes they all are , well I did have night sights put on 2 but internals
    and trigger groups all stock
     
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  7. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    True, he bought it like. Also true, it's still just some drop in parts.

    While they may have engineers and master gunsmiths in house, they're not the ones snapping these together.
     
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  8. Acera

    Acera Member

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    I got drop in trigger parts in everyone of my ARs and feel completely safe with them.

    I got a drop in connector to lessen the Glock factory trigger pull in my 20C, feel completely safe with it.

    Have drop in parts on every 1911 I've ever had, from grips to triggers, hammers, etc.,none had this issue.

    Most everyone who owns more than a gun or two does some sort of modification to it. Whether you change the grips, put on an optic, install a sling, change the handguards/stock, extend a mag release, etc. It is not that uncommon and for the most part is safe and improves the performance of the gun or the shooter.

    'Drop in parts' should not be considered a bad thing, they assist many shooters in improving their firearms. In fact, I think they are a lot better than 'Some fitting required' parts, and a definitive improvement over 'Gunsmith installation required'.

    Very few of firearms I own are 'stock'. Most of those that are stock have never had a round fired from them and are sitting in their original boxes in the safe.

    This may not be the case in this particular product. If you have one, check it for proper safe function.



    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
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  9. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    There are simple safety checks on Glocks.

    Obviously the guy in vid didn't do any of them. Some brands cheat the drop safety, some don't. Do your homework, or keep it stock. I'm pretty sure that you can adjust the ZEV trigger to be safe. But that trigger is pretty much obsolete by now. (Welcome to the year 2009)
     
  10. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    It's the users fault still.

    You don't buy a gun from Billy Bob and not check it. The safety checks are easy. Every Glock owner should be aware of them. ZEV isn't Glock, for all we know it's a guy with a hobby mill in his basement. My ZEV race connector never made it to the range, was in my Glock 23 for about 30 minutes, then right into the trash can. I prefer the LW 3.5 connector.
     
  11. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    There's a big difference between changing grips, and dropping in race triggers.

    AR triggers are a bit of a different beast. They're generally true packs, as in everything is all inside one self contained fiddle-proof package. Everything's fitted and tested at the factory level and it all drops in as one single contained unit. Quite a bit tidy-er of a package than replacing all the guts in a Glock. I feel substantially better about AR trigger packs than I do about Glock, S&W M&P or XD's and the like.

    Some parts I see no issue with "drop-in", some parts shouldn't be though. If I want an accurate 1911, I'm not gonna buy a drop-in barrel bushing. A magazine button I don't think I'd mind being drop-in however. We're talking about trigger components though, those I want fitted and tested by a actual professional.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  12. M1key

    M1key Member

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    As a certified armorer, I keep them all stock and only recommend factory parts or upgrades. And I've probably owned upwards of 30 of them...

    Aren't all Glock parts "drop-in"?

    If you want to play with it and customize it, fine. I have myself in the past, but don't complain to me when stuff don't work right. Even Jeff Cooper experimented with custom features on his 1911 and eventually came back around to original parts.

    M
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  13. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Not really. They'll "drop in", but the safeties and engagement might "drop off".

    Basically, we're tolerance stacking aftermarket parts. Certain combos stack up OK, some don't.
     
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  14. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    Acera

    Thanks for the heads-up and for the further clarification from the owner as to what happened.
     
  15. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Cannot see the video, Is this the video of the guy rattling his glock and you can hear the FP moving about???
    cause that's not supposed to happen. :eek:
    plunger is disengaged would be my best bet.
     
  16. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    Something is really wrong with that gun, because it has two mechanical devices that failed at the same time - the trigger bar is dropping the striker and the trigger safety is not holding. This is not a simple defective trigger bar as it was described. The trigger safety lever has one exact purpose - to prevent, via the FP safety, the striker to contact live ammo in case of trigger bar/striker failure. This gun is either build by a complete amateur, or the owner is not telling the whole story.
     
  17. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    If the trigger bar falls off the striker, the trigger will go dead as if it was pulled. I'm 85% sure that's what's happening here. Not the trigger shoe safety.

    I wasn't sure that a half cocked Glock could fire a round, but this guy had exactly that. Then again, the new Glocks have stronger springs.
     
  18. JO JO

    JO JO Member

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    But if folks think they are improving their gun by removing factory parts and installing slick ricks parts, all all can say is it's on them NOT the gun ,
     
  19. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    If I were stuck owning ONLY what some company was selling (because their marketing group felt they could sell enough to get a payback on that particular configuration), I'd own far fewer firearms, and enjoy shooting far, far less.

    If you've done trigger jobs or replacements on Glocks and AR's, it's very clear to see the error in the above statement. Not all AR triggers are self contained, and it's no more difficult to install or tune a Glock trigger than an AR component trigger. Barring the few places where "tolerance stacking" can bite a guy in the butt on both Glocks and AR's, Glock aftermarket triggers typically go in and function fine after a 5-10min job. Take down as normal for cleaning, push out two pins, pull out both blocks, twist the trigger bar out of position, unhook the spring, hook on the new spring, twist the new bar into position, slide the blocks back into place, replace the pins, and function test.

    Alternatively, there are as many or more (I'd personally bet considerably MORE) AR-15 triggers on the market which are NOT self contained units than those which are. Just off of the top of my head: CMC, AR-Gold, Velocity, Timney, Wilson, and Lantac do make self contained FCG modules, but Geiselle, Ruger, LaRue, Stoner, Bushmaster, Rock River, JP, BCM, Hyper Fire, LWRC, and Jard all make traditional component enhanced FCG's - not to mention every Tom, Dick, & Harry making a conventional mil-spec trigger which isn't self-contained. AR-15 triggers are hardly standardized for self-contained design. And AR triggers are no less vulnerable to "tolerance stacking" issues than any other firearm.

    Having done my share of work on both designs, I know I can install a Glock trigger faster than any of the popular non-self contained AR-15 triggers listed above.

    Most people don't REALLY understand how either action works, but the AR-15 fire control group performs a lot less functions, and the safety easier to visualize. The Glock triggers and trigger bars do incorporate more safety features than the AR-15 trigger, and unlike the AR which reveals its safety function when the upper is removed, the Glock safeties only operate when the two are assembled and the FCG is essentially hidden, so that lack of understanding will lead to more opportunity for mis-fitments to cause function issues which go unnoticed in the Glock design. Guys slap stuff together, pull the trigger, and it goes bang - all the while, they can't tell the drop safety isn't engaging or the pin block safety isn't disengaging, so they think the install was successful. An AR is more transparent about giving away FCG issues, if it goes bang, disconnects, resets, and DOESN'T go bang on safe, it's done properly. A Glock FCG isn't so easy to function test.

    In reading this thread, but risking a guess without seeing the pistol in person, I would assume the cruciform on the trigger bar needs a little more bend - little more engagement on the striker bar (more sear). That angle dictates the security of the drop safety.
     
  20. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    Nope, sorry - the trigger safety bar is there for one simple and specific reason: to prevent disengaging of the firing pin stop and AD in case the striker looses contact with the trigger bar accidentally, without pulling on the trigger. I repeat again, because this is something very important and often misunderstood - the only reason for the trigger safety bar to be there is to act like a passive drop safety. If that little bar was engaging like it should that guy from the video would not have experienced an accidental discharge.
     
  21. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    The trigger bar is already holding the FP safety down. When you jar it, it falls off the striker and the striker has a free path to the primer.

    The first one is an adjustment issue, too much pretravel removed. I'll let someone else judge the second, but it's too much pretravel removed and/or weird connector. Super soft striker springs ain't helping much either.

    I scares me how many Glock guys have aftermarket trigger parts, but no clear or orange slide back plate in their toolbox.
     
  22. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    Only when the trigger is pulled more than two thirds of it's travel the FPS is disengaged. The trigger from the OP's video clearly is not over adjusted so to disengage the FPS at rest. Watch his video again - the trigger safety bar is sticking in front of the trigger and it's operational. Please, watch this video bellow (from 3:15 min) - it will answer some questions as to when the trigger bar exactly rises the FPS:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  23. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    Glock's firing from partial cock became a topic on another forum. Several members, including some industry types gave it a go. I believe all got the Glock to fire from the normal partial cock position.

    I'll admit I'm not a Glock guy, so I don't know what they had to fail to get the guns to fire, but it was clear while the Glock is partially cocked unlike the fully cocked guns like the XD, the "partially cocked" safety advantage claim holds little water.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  24. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    In reading this post, it doesn't appear you understand how the two internal safeties actually operate, as neither of these statements are true about the firing pin block safety nor the drop safety.

    The firing pin safety - the firing pin block safety - is LIFTED by the ramped tab on the top of the trigger bar to as the trigger is pulled rearward to disengage the block from the path of the firing pin. It is NOT being held down by the trigger bar, it's being held in place by the firing pin block spring. Excess material on that tab or insufficient trigger pretravel in the adjustment will cause this tab to make contact prematurely with the firing pin block plunger, lifting it and allowing striker travel even when the trigger is at rest. This safety blocks the firing pin in the middle of the pin.

    The Drop Safety is a dimensional dead stop provided by the Trigger Mechanism Housing under the trigger bar, which doesn't allow the "sear" end - the head of the cruciform portion of the trigger bar - from falling below the end of the Firing Pin Bar. Some aftermarket trigger bars won't have enough angle in the head of the trigger bar, or have too much material on the ramp at the end of the trigger bar, such they don't provide sufficient dimension to create an over-sized dead length, meaning the trigger bar can fall below the firing pin bar even when the trigger is in the forward position. This safety blocks the firing pin from at the rear.

    The 3rd safety in the Glock Safe Action pistol, which most folks are familiar with, is the passive manual trigger block safety blade in the trigger. This prevents the trigger from moving rearward unintentionally. When the other two safeties listed above are in spec and functional, this 3rd safety ensures they are able to do their job. If a pistol is dropped, the trigger block safety prevents the trigger from moving rearward, then the drop safety can do its job. Even if the drop safety were to slip, the firing pin block safety will catch the striker.

    Since this pistol is firing, not just slipping the drop safety and being caught by the FP block, AND the trigger is moving rearward, that trigger bar is way out of whack and likely the trigger block blade too - as it's defeating both internal safeties AND allowing the trigger to move rearward without manual depression of the blade. Not cool when all 3 safeties fail at the same time. On a drop-slip, the trigger should feel dead as though it was dry fired, BUT, it shouldn't move rearward without you pulling the blade safety.

    Can you pull the trigger body without pulling the blade? Does the trigger block blade actually catch the frame before it says bang?
     
  25. Mizar

    Mizar Member

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    My point exactly! Bellow I put two screenshots from the OP's video - first is right before he drops the gun, after he pressed on the trigger several times, the second one is right after the gun was dropped. Comparing both pics one can clearly see, that the trigger safety lever (blade) is in it's most forward position, thus eliminating the over adjusted pre-travel theory saying, that the trigger was adjusted too much to the rear and the trigger safety lever was permanently disengaged. It is clearly a trigger safety lever failure - even if the trigger bar is so out of spec that it will disengage the firing pin safety in the trigger's forward position, when drooped and releasing the striker that trigger should remain in it's forward position held by the trigger lever. But, if that lever is not working as it should (for one reason or another) the trigger spring is strong enough to pull the trigger all the way back and to overcome and disengage the firing pin safety.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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