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Warrior Ethos

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Klint Beastwood, Jan 30, 2018.

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  1. Klint Beastwood

    Klint Beastwood Member

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    A book by Stephen Pressfield; The Warrior Ethos has been around for awhile. I was in Afghanistan around 2012 when someone gave me a copy told me to check it out for a light read. Now I'm passing on the recommendation to you here for those that haven't read it.
    Training as many have surmised is not limited to merely a physical or technical aspect but mentally too. Warrior Ethos is another way to look into the some relevant history and psychology into different warrior cultures. Books like these are also tools we bring into combat, they help us understand the warrior mindset and hopefully helps us give a honest good hard look at ourselves before tucking in the gun and walking out the door.

    Here is a sample:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=OSXjAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
     
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  2. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    I really do not think that that kind of thinking is at all appropriate for a lawful defender.
     
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  3. Klint Beastwood

    Klint Beastwood Member

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    Good thing I didn’t ask your opinion. Aren’t you one of the liability patrol on here?
     
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  4. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    Alrighty, then. Just ow do you think that a book that will "help us understand the warrior mindset and ...give a honest good hard look at ourselves before tucking in the gun and walking out the door" might be helpful to a citizen who is expected to avoid combat? .

    The warrior has an entirely different objective.
     
  5. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    Because if you ARE tucking in that gun and going out into a public place you had better have your mind in the right place. Avoiding violent situations is a must but there may come a time when you are unable to. It is in such situations the right frame of mind can save your life or the life of another.
     
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  6. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Because the lessons learned do include some that can help the lawful defender. Examples; Never give up, there are alternatives to battle sometimes, The best way to pick the site of battle (or prevent it) is through situational awareness (called recon in battle), do the unexpected, etc.
    Is the entire book applicable to CCW/HD? No. But it's worth the read with the thought of "how can I apply this to me?" on your mind.
    "On Combat" is often cited as a good CCW read (for good reason) yet, large portions of it do not apply.
     
  7. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    Not at all familiar with the book,BUT any and all training and mental preparations are something to add to an 'arsenal' that you might want if you " head out the door " ,properly healed of course.
     
  8. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Yep. Any of you remember our "Tacoma Mall Shooter" a few years (well, about 12 or so) back? While Maldonado was prancing about with his MAK-90 and a pistol, having already shot five people ... a cigar shop employee with a CPL, armed with (IIRC) a CZ-75 confronted him. Brendan (Dan) McKown drew his pistol but then had second thoughts of shooting "a kid". (he later said something like, "He looked so young") ... McKown holstered his pistol and verbally commanded Maldonado to put down his gun. Maldonado's then shot McKown, striking him once in the leg and four times in the torso, leaving him a paraplegic. [Maldonado then took four people hostage in a record store and the hostage situation lasted a couple more hours until TPD SWAT negotiated his surrender.]

    This is a textbook example of believing one is prepared, being armed, but not having the mindset to overcome an armed adversary and survive.

    Precisely why we need to constantly refresh ourselves regarding mindset, be it through training or reading ...
     
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  9. readyeddy

    readyeddy Member

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    "I have conquered the need to conquer the world."

    Book is a good concise read, and goes way beyond fighting.
     
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  10. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    A fight is a fight- whether you are a good guy or a bad guy. If you, as a good guy, find yourself in a fight with a bad guy- you better have your head right and bring your "A" game, cause you can bet the guy who started it brought his. Only thing worse than getting in a lethal/potentially lethal confrontation is getting 2nd place. Trust me- gunshot and similar wounds HURT- at a minimum. I also find them very embarrassing.
     
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  11. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Another book I enjoyed is called The Deadliest Men- there are 2 volumes. It chronicles a very diverse group= ancient warriors, gunfighters, peace officers, shop owners, criminals, and even a few ex heads-of-state.
     
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  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    I fail to see what that has to do with the subject. but the only part of the book that I have read is the linked excerpt.

    It tells us that running from a fight is disgraceful.

    For a civilian, it may be the best thing to do.
     
  13. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    There is no tactic, technique, or procedure that has a "universal adaptor". Any more than there is a singular play that will win a football game. Anyone who had been in even 1 gunfight will tell you this. And for what its worth, even the most specialized units drill in the defense as well as the attack. Ever heard of a break contact drill? As a member of a recon unit, this is a primary battle drill. Look up METT-TC, an army acronym. It is the basis for all tactical considerations- whether you are talking about a corps operation, or a 2 man specialty team.
     
  14. readyeddy

    readyeddy Member

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    The Warrior Ethos actually addresses how in America the warrior culture is embedded within civil society, the challenges involved, and the advantages of having a warrior ethos in the civilian world. It's found in chapters 22 and 23.

    For a book filled with references to Alexander, the U.S. Marine Corp., Sparta and the Bhagavad-Gita, the Kindle price tag of less than $6 comes across as being very reasonable.
     
  15. Klint Beastwood

    Klint Beastwood Member

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    It might get you killed too...What’s you point?

    Also just read the book....you are half cocked on the context of what it’s about.

    Lastly, I’m curious, are you more concern about living or is your apparent fear of a gunfight/legal issues outweight that will to live?

    #ididntvoteforhillary
     
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  16. hdwhit
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    hdwhit Member

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    In my father's day they used to refer to that as "The Spirit of the Bayonet".
     
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  17. hdwhit
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    hdwhit Member

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    Shame on you for equating the attitude of a combat zone with that required of a civilian in a civilized society.
     
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  18. Klint Beastwood

    Klint Beastwood Member

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    Hahahhahaha....aww that was good.
     
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  19. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    Where is this place you speak of? I would like to visit one day.
     
  20. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    No. You miss the point entirely.

    When a civilian "tucks in a gun and walks out the door" he carries the gun for self preservation, and only for self preservation. He has no duty to find and participate in a gunfight, and the idea that his attempting to evade, avoid, or even retreat, which would be the best way to survive if any of those avenues were at all possible, should be equated with a decision to flee from the scene on the part of a soldier, a sworn officer, or a first responder in firefighting or rescue is absurd.
     
  21. Klint Beastwood

    Klint Beastwood Member

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    Your right,
    and nowhere was anyone talking about going out of their way to get into a fight. As far as the book is concerned it doesn’t give tactical advice.
    On a second note, I’d be careful lecturing what it takes for self preservation. How many gun fights have you been in? Bet you I’ve been in more...a gun fight is a gun fight.

    The dudes on the train in paris that stopped the gunman on there...they had the opportunity to NOT do that...bet you it was a good thing they did....and they didn’t even have a gun...

    The fact is, your check list thought process doesn’t accurately reflect reality. No one is saying look for a gun fight.

    If you are worried about the samples link on the book, just read it in its entirety. You might be surprised, no one that’s read it has said anything bad about it.

    Lastly, more times than not, you don’t get the opportunity to flee. I don’t know why you keep repeating that...
    I’m sure the people in the San Bernardino shooting tried to flee...it’s called a moving target. When they woke up that morning, it was just another day. So yeah, when walking out the door, adopting a more vigilant mentality may be a deciding factor in self preservation. When the enemy attacks, your ability to make decisions become very limited. In the states, overseas, at the mall, behind the cashier counter, stuck in traffic...it doesn’t matter.
    Your dip, dodge, duck, run mentality only goes so far man.
     
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  22. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    By far the best means of self preservation is to avoid gunfights in the first place.

    The excerpt that you provided glorifies the strategy of not avoiding one.

    Are their portions that you believe to be more representative of how someone who is not a sworn officer should think or act?

    Flight was the behavior so thoroughly criticized in the sample of the book that you included.

    I would do it, if I could do so in perfect safety without abandoning a loved one.

    More likely, I would rely on avoidance and evasion.

    I would of course shoot, if doing so were immediately necessary as a last resort.

    Yes indeed.
     
  23. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    I can see both sides of this discussion. On one hand the mindset of a police officer or soldier about a duty to respond, to run towards the sound of the guns, is not applicable to the armed citizen.

    But that doesn't mean that there is nothing to be gained from other parts of that mindset. The armed citizen may have a fight forced on him. When that happens, the armed citizen needs to draw on the aspects of police/military mindset in order to prevail. Once the fight is forced on the armed citizen he needs to be able to respond quickly and with enough violence of action to see the situation through.

    If we can dismiss the parts of the book that aren't applicable to a private citizen there is something for everyone who contemplates having to prevail in a deadly force encounter to learn. We need to take the things that are applicable to our situation and ignore the rest.
     
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  24. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator

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    I have ordered it.
     
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  25. readyeddy

    readyeddy Member

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    I think you will like it. It's full of great short stories, like chapter 2 entitled "Women First".
     

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