Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

wc 852 lot baj 47288

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by brassbullets12, Apr 14, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. brassbullets12

    brassbullets12 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    kentucky
    this probally has been hashed before, but i need some answers. i have looked on a lot of web sites, nobody has a real answer. i have a couple of jugs bought a while back wc 852 lot baj 47288. i wanted it for the garand, but i think its too slow. i have a large supply of 175 gr match king.308 diam wonder if the larger bullet could be loaded with this powder in the garand ? , i was going to load 150 gr too. i have some imr 4895 for that.. also wondering if it could be loaded in 308 bolt or semi using 175 ? i almost wished i hadn't bought it.
    thanks for any real info.
     
  2. medalguy

    medalguy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,207
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Can't really answer your question, never tried 852 with a heavy bullet, but that powder IIRC was manufactured for .30-06 tracer ammo which requires a 144 gr bullet. You would need to work up a load for a heavier bullet and I don't know how well that particular powder would work. Does this help any???
     
  3. brassbullets12

    brassbullets12 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    kentucky
    i really bought it for the 150, but i have been told everywhere else it is too slow. i am wondering what i can load with it. i did use it one time and they were from memory about 300 to 500 feet slower than what it should have been, i could get more powder in cases, but i have beeen told not to use it in my garands, i know a lot of this was sold, i got it from hi-tech and gibrass. i might need to call jeff barlett ,he might be able to give me a good idea.
    thanks for reply
     
  4. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,579
    Location:
    Alabama
    For IMR 4895 loads and the Garand, search the site, I am sure I have posted lots of advice on 168’s and 175’s in Garands with IMR 4895.

    I have data sheets for two lots of WC 852. Accurate Arms bought a 90,000 pound lot and sold it as AA2700. All lots have different burn rates. My lot of WC 852 is Lot BAJ 47287. This powder was specifically tested for use in M1 Garand rifles with a 150 grain bullet.

    I bought my lot of WC852 from Jeff Barnett of GI Brass early in the 90’s. This powder works well in a number of high pressure cartridges. You will see the cartridges which the velocities were too slow , such as the 308. My lot is too slow for any practical purpose in the 308 Win. It will shoot very well with stock M1 Garands with 150 or 174 FMJBT bullets.

    Some of my 30-06 data I used Federals in my Garands. This was long ago, before I had two out of battery slamfires with Federals in Garands. Even though I am posting data, I do not recommend Federals or any primer that is “more sensitive” in a Garand. I recommend “mil spec” primers: CCI #34’s or Tula7.62.


    The amount of data I am posting is overkill, if you search you will find my loads that worked well in my Garands.

    30-06 Govt Loading Data: Lot BAJ 47287

    Lake City case and Primer, 60.1 grs
    WC852, 152 gr Ball M2, average pressure 40,200 velocity 2750



    Code:
    [SIZE="3"]      
    
    								
    .[B][SIZE="4"]243 Chronograph Data[/SIZE][/B]			
    								
    M70 Featherweight Classic Factory Barrel 				
    								
    								
    100 grain Sierra Spitzier, 40.0 grs wtd WC852, R-P cases, FED 210S 	OAL 2.670"
    10 Mar 02	T= 48 ° F	 	 					
    								
    Ave Vel =	2551				 	 	 	
    Std Dev =	24				 	 	 	
    ES =	49				 	 		
    Low =	2524				 			
    High =	2573		 		 			
    N =	4							
    								
    100 grain Sierra Spitzier, 41.0 grs wtd WC852, R-P cases, FED 210S 	OAL 2.670"
    		 	 					
    10 Mar 02	T= 48 ° F							
    Ave Vel =	2527				 	 	 	
    Std Dev =	14				 	 	 	
    ES =	33				 	 		
    Low =	2512				 			
    High =	2545				 			
    N =	5							
    								
    100 grain Sierra Spitzier SP 43.0 grs WC 852 wtd, R-P cases, FED 210S 	OAL 2.60"
    24 Mar 04	T= 70 ° F	 						
    								
    Ave Vel =	2768					 	 	
    Std Dev =	22					 		
    ES =	77					 		
    Low =	2733							
    High =	2810							
    N =	10							
    								
    100 grain Sierra Spitzier SP 45.0 grs WC 852 wtd, R-P cases, FED 210S 	OAL 2.60"
    24 Mar 04	T= 70 ° F	 						
    								
    Ave Vel =	2870					 	 	
    Std Dev =	11					 		
    ES =	22					 	 	
    Low =	2858							
    High =	2880							
    N =	3							
    								
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"]6.5X55 Chronograph Data[/SIZE][/B]			
    								
    M38 Infantry Carbine 24" barrel  				
    								
    140 Speer SP (.263")  50.0 grs WC852  L.S. 3.4	CBC cases Fed 210M  OAL 3.050"
    5-Jan-94	T ≈ 40 °F							
    Ave Vel =	2741				 	 		
    Std Dev =	11				 	 	 	
    ES =	29				 	 	 	
    Low =	2730				 	  		
    High =	2759				 	 		
    N =	5							
    								
    								
    M38 Calvary Carbine 24" Barrel				
    								
    140 Hornady (.264")  41.5 grs WS852 Hansen cases Fed 210S	 OAL 3.050"	
    20-Mar-94	T ≈ 78 °F							
    Ave Vel =	2224				 	 		
    Std Dev =	26				 	 	 	
    ES =	86				 	 	 	
    Low =	2172				 	  	 	
    High =	2258					 		
    N =	10							
    								
    								
    140 Hornady (.264")  46.0 grs WS852 (L.S. 3.1) Hansen cases Fed 210S	 OAL 3.050"
    20-Mar-94	T ≈ 78 °F							
    Ave Vel =	2468			 	 	 		
    Std Dev =	12			 	 			
    ES =	29			 				
    Low =	2457			 	 			
    High =	2486			 				
    N =	5							
    stiff bolt lift all rounds							
    								
    								
    M700  22" Barrel 						
    								
    140 gr Rem PSP 47.0 grs WC852 wtd  Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"		
    	 							
    2 Feb 2008 T = 52 °F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2494							
    Std Dev =	19							
    ES =	63							
    High =	2520							
    Low =	2457							
    N =	10							
    Best accuracy of series							
    								
    140 gr Rem PSP 48.0 grs WC852 wtd  Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"		
    	 							
    2 Feb 2008 T = 52 °F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2541							
    Std Dev =	11							
    ES =	39							
    High =	2563							
    Low =	2524							
    N =	10							
    								
    140 gr Rem PSP 49.0 grs WC852 wtd  Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"		
    	 							
    2 Feb 2008 T = 52 °F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2607							
    Std Dev =	12							
    ES =	37							
    High =	2624							
    Low =	2587							
    N =	10							
    								
    								
    140 gr Rem PSP 50.0 grs WC852 wtd  Norma brass CCI-200 OAL 3.000"		
    	 							
    2 Feb 2008 T = 52 °F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2669							
    Std Dev =	13							
    ES =	40							
    High =	2680							
    Low =	2640							
    N =	10							
    definite increase in bolt lift, but not "sticky"					
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"]7X57 Chronograph Data	[/SIZE][/B]		
    								
    								
    M1908/34 Brazilian 22" Barrel 					
    								
    139 gr  Hornady FB 50.0 grs WC852 Lee Scoop 3.4  R/P cases Fed 210S		
    								
    23-Jul-95	T ≈ 85 °F		 					
    								
    Ave Vel =	2500			 	 	 		
    Std Dev =	2			 	 	 	 	
    ES =	3			 	 	 		
    Low =	2498			 	 	  		
    High =	2501			 	 	 		
    N =	2							
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"]270 Winchester[/SIZE][/B]						
    								
    								
     FN Deluxe  24" Barrel 						
    	 new Wolff 22 pound mainspring				
    								
    								
    150 gr Speer Flat Base  55.0 grains WC852 wtd R-P cases FED 201S  OAL 3.300"	
    								
    14 Mar 2012  T =  80 °F 						
    								
    Ave Vel =	2762							
    Std Dev =	25							
    ES =	75							
    High =	2811							
    Low =	2736							
    N =	10							
    		outstanding accuracy, best to date with this rifle		
    								
    150 gr Speer Flat Base  57.0 grains WC852 wtd R-P cases FED 201S  OAL 3.300"	
    								
    14 Mar 2012  T =  80 °F 						
    								
    Ave Vel =	2876							
    Std Dev =	14							
    ES =	43							
    High =	2895							
    Low =	2852							
    N =	9							
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"]7.5X55 Chronograph Data[/SIZE][/B]			
    								
    								
    7.5 x 55 Swiss  Model K-31						
    								
    174gr .308 FMJBT 54.0 gr wt'd WC852 Norma Cases, Fed210S OAL 2.925		
    								
    9-Mar-97	T= 70F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2424							
    Std Dev =	16						 	
    ES =	32							
    Low =	2411							
    High =	2443							
    								
    174gr .308 FMJBT 56.5 gr wt'd WC852 Norma cases, Fed210S OAL 2.900		
    								
    30-Apr-97	T= 75F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2499							
    Std Dev =	35							
    ES =	95							
    Low =	2443							
    High =	2538							
    								
    174gr .308 FMJBT 57.0 gr wt'd WC852 Norma cases, Fed210S OAL 2.900		
    								
    30-Apr-97	T= 75F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2563							
    Std Dev =	24							
    ES =	59							
    Low =	2543							
    High =	2602							
    								
    								
    165 gr BTSP Hornady 55.0 gr WC852, 284 Win Brass, Fed 210S OAL 2.900		
    								
    27 July 97 T = 90F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2595							
    Std Dev =	80							
    ES =	268							
    Low =	2517							
    High =	2785							
    								
    								
    174 gr FMJBT 55.0 gr WC852, .284 Win Brass, Fed210S, 			
    								
    26 May 97 T = 75F							
    								
    								
    Ave Vel =	2531							
    Std Dev =	20							
    ES =	49							
    Low =	2500							
    High =	2549							
    								
    								
    								
    7.5 x 55 Swiss  Model K-31						
    Kanonier (canon operator) B. 1923					
    Rudolf Bigler  Haubitzen Stabsbatterie 32 (Unit) 			
    Waffenweg 18 (address) 3014 Bern (zip code / town)		
    								
    								
    168 gr Nosler Match 56.0 gr WC852, INDEP Brass and Primer OAL 2.850		
    								
    1 Dec 01 T = 52 ° F							
    								
    								
    Ave Vel =	2402					 		
    Std Dev =	21					 		
    ES =	-2376					 		
    Low =	2376					 		
    								
    								
    7.5 x 55 Swiss  Model M1911 					
    								
    174 FMJBT 57.0 WC852 INDEP cases INDEP primers	OAL 	2.85		
    								
    30-Apr-03	T = 86° F	 						
    								
    Ave Vel =	2837							
    Std Dev =	188							
    ES =	544							
    Low =	2646							
    High =	3190							
    N =	17		 		 			
    		suspect velocities, major chronograph movement		
    		after each shot.					
    								
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"]7.5  X 54 French Chronograph Data 	[/SIZE][/B]MAS 36-51  						 	
    								
    165 Gr R-P 50.0 grs WC852 Lee Scoop 3.4 Hansen cases Fed 210S		
    								
    19-Dec-92	T ≈ 50 °F		 					
    								
    Ave Vel =	2285				 	 		
    Std Dev =	130				 	 	 	 
    ES =	328				 	 		
    Low =	2173				 	  		
    High =	2501				 	 		
    N =	5	
    
    						
    [B][SIZE="4"]308 Winchester 	[/SIZE][/B]		
    								
    M70   26" Kreiger Barrel, four groove, 1:10 twist		
    								
    190 gr Speer Match 50.0 grs WC852 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S			
    								
    9 Mar 97 T=70F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2328							
    Std Dev =	18							
    ES =	52							
    Low =	2310							
    High =	2362							
    N =	14							
    								
    								
    190 gr Speer Match 51.5 grs WC852 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S			
    								
    30 April  97 T=70F							
    								
    								
    Ave Vel =	2392							
    Std Dev =	19							
    ES =	54							
    Low =	2361							
    High =	2415							
    N =	10							
    								
    								
    190 gr Speer Match 52.5 grs WC852 wt'd R-P cases Fed 210S			
    								
    30 April  97 T=70F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2461							
    Std Dev =	12							
    ES =	41							
    Low =	2442							
    High =	2483							
    								
    								
    								
    								
    								
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"]30-06 Chronograph Data[/SIZE][/B]			
    								
    M98   26"  1-10 Wilson Barrel					
    								
    190 gr Speer 57.0grs  WC852 wtd. FED 210M  190 ≤ WWII ≤ 195 grs OAL 3.345"	
    								
    5 Oct 2000	T=70°F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2658						
    Std Dev =	15							
    ES =	42							
    Low =	2639							
    High =	2681							
    N =	9							
    								
    good group, load has potential w/better brass, primers look ok								
    						
    							
    								
    200 gr Sierra  Match 55.0 gr WC852 wt'd WWII cases  (190 to 195 gr cases) Fed 210S OAL 3.35 
    								
    30 April 98	T=72°F							
    								
    								
    Ave Vel =	2538							
    Std Dev =	39							
    ES =	104							
    Low =	2493							
    High =	2597							
    N =	10							
    								
    200 gr Sierra  Match 56.0 gr WC852 wt'd WWII cases  (190 to 195 gr cases)Fed 210S OAL 3.35
    								
    30 April 98	T=72°F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2552							
    Std Dev =	12							
    ES =	36							
    Low =	2535							
    High =	2571							
    N =	10							
    primers OK, starting to flatten							
    200 gr Sierra  Match 57.0 gr WC852 wt'd WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases) Fed 210S OAL 3.35
    								
    30 April 98	T=72°F							
    Ave Vel =	2601							
    Std Dev =	12							
    ES =	36							
    Low =	2582							
    High =	2618							
    N =	10							
    								
    primers OK, but may be max load						
    								
    SAKO    24" Barrel   						
    								
    165 gr R-P SPFB  57.0 grs WC852  RA54  Fed 210M  OAL 3.330			
    								
    2 Mar 91 T = 70F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2566							
    Std Dev =	19							
    ES =	69							
    Low =	2533							
    High =	2602							
    N =	10							
    								
    174 gr FMJBT 57.0 gr WC852  RA54 Fed210M   OAL 3.330			
    								
    2 Mar 91 T = 70F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2590							
    Std Dev =	17							
    ES =	52							
    Low =	2564							
    High =	2616							
    N =	10							
    								
    174 gr FMJBT 58.0 gr WC852  RA54 Fed210M   OAL 3.330			
    								
    2 Mar 91 T = 70F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2668							
    Std Dev =	16							
    ES =	53							
    Low =	2640							
    High =	2693							
    N =	10							
    								
    174 gr FMJBT 59.0 gr WC852  RA54 Fed210M   OAL 3.330			
    								
    2 Mar 91 T = 70F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2733							
    Std Dev =	24							
    ES =	80							
    Low =	2701							
    High =	2781							
    N =	9							
    Blown group								
    								
    								
    							
    								
    174 FMJBT 55.0 grs WC852 WCC55 WLR OAL 3.250"	OAL 2.80"		
    								
    27-Nov-06	T = 60 ° F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2478							
    Std Dev =	17					 		
    ES =	59					 		
    High =	2507					 		
    Low =	2448					 		
    N =	16		 	 				
    								
    [B] M1 Garand  Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist [/B]				
    								
    174 FMJBT 57.0 WC852  WWII cases (190 to 195 gr cases) Fed210S OAL 3.30"	
    								
    5 May 00 T = 82 ° F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2510							
    Std Dev =	13							
    ES =	45							
    Low =	2486							
    High =	2531							
    N =	10							
    								
    [B]M1 Garand 30-06  VAR barrel[/B]					
    								
    148 IMI FMJBT 59.5 gr WC852 IMI cases CCI200  				
    								
    T=72  °  F	4 April 2009		 				
    								
    Ave Vel =	2683						 	
    Std Dev =	18						 	
    ES =	57							
    Low =	2647							
    High =	2704							
    N =	8							
    								
    [B]M1  Garand 3-53 SA Barrel[/B] 						
    TE=3.0, ME=1.0 							
    								
    173 FMJBT 55.0 gr WC852 Mixed  cases CCI#34 OAL 3.250  			
    								
    T=72 °  F    29 May 2010		 				
    								
    Ave Vel =	2486							
    Std Dev =	27							
    ES =	103							
    Low =	2435							
    High =	2538							
    N =	31							
    								
    								
    [B]M70 30-06  26" Douglas Barrel[/B]					
    								
    175 gr Sierra  Match 57.0 gr WC852 wt'd W/W cases Fed 210S			
    								
    30 April 97 T = 72F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2596							
    Std Dev =	51							
    ES =	159							
    Low =	2554							
    High =	2713							
    								
    190 gr Speer Match 55.0 gr WC852 wt'd W/W cases Fed 210S			
    								
    30 April 97 T= 75F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2512							
    Std Dev =	64							
    ES =	191							
    Low =	2467							
    High =	2658							
    								
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"].303 British Chronograph Data[/SIZE][/B]		
    No. 4 MkII 								
    								
    150 gr CIL (.311) Spitzer SP  55.0 grs WC852 Lee.Scoop. 3.7 Hansen cases Fed 210S	
    								
    19-Dec-92	T ≈ 50 °F							
    			 					
    Ave Vel =	2414				 	 		
    Std Dev =	25				 	 		
    ES =	61				 	 		
    Low =	2393				 	 		
    High =	2454				 	 		
    N =	5							
    								
    174 gr Hornady (.311) RN 41.5 grs WC 852  L.S. 2.8 Hansen cases  Fed 210M	
    			 					
    30-Jul-91	T ≈  90 °F							
    								
    								
    Ave Vel =	1991				 	 		
    Std Dev =	35				 	 	 	
    ES =	92				 	 		
    Low =	1959				 	 		
    High =	2051			 	 	 		
    N =	5			 				
    								
    								
    174 gr Hornady (.311) RN 46.0 grs WC 852  L.S. 3.1 Hansen cases  Fed 210M	
    			 					
    30-Jul-91	T ≈  90 °F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2205			 	 	 		
    Std Dev =	18			 	 	 	 	
    ES =	44			 	 	 		
    Low =	2180			 	 	 		
    High =	2224			 	 	 		
    N =	5			 				
    								
    174 gr FMJ Greek Bullet 55.0 grs WC852 L.S. 3.7 Hansen cases Fed 210S		
    								
    19-Dec-92	T ≈ 50 °F							
    								
    			 					
    Ave Vel =	2437				 	 		
    Std Dev =	25				 	 	 	
    ES =	55				 	 		
    Low =	2406				 	 		
    High =	2461				 	 		
    N =	5							
    								
    								
    [B][SIZE="4"]300H&H Magnum[/SIZE][/B]						
    pre 64 Winchester M70  26" Barrel Mfgr 1952   			
    								
    190 Hornady Match 64.0 grs WC852 wtd, Hornady cases Fed210S OAL 3.590"		
    								
    12 Jan 2013 T =  72 °F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2643				 			
    Std Dev =	27				 			
    ES =	54	 			 			
    High =	2671			 	 			
    Low =	2617			 	 			
    N =	3	 	 	 	 			
    		 		easy extraction rounded primers	
    								
    								
    190 Hornady Match 65.0 grs WC852 wtd, Hornady cases Fed210S OAL 3.590"		
    								
    12 Jan 2013 T =  72 °F							
    								
    Ave Vel =	2674				 			
    Std Dev =	28				 			
    ES =	55	 			 			
    High =	2702				 			
    Low =	2647			 	 			
    N =	3	 	 	 	 			
    				easy extraction rounded primers	
                       [/SIZE]




    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  5. FLIGHT762

    FLIGHT762 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    192
    Location:
    Nor Cal/SFO area
    WC852 varied greatly lot to lot. It varied in speed from as fast as H-335 / 4895 to as slow as IMR4831.

    I also bought my lots from Jeff Bartlett. I remember speaking with him for some time about using WC852 in the Garand. I purchased the fast lot which took about 50 grains for a 150 grain bullet. He said the slow lots were not suitable for the Garand.

    If you can find the load data for your lot, you can likely determine the speed. The information slamfire posted for lot BAJ 47287 shows 60.1 grains for a 152 grain bullet @ 2750 FPS. I'm no expert, but I believe 60.1 grains to get to 2750 FPS indicates a slow lot, probably not suitable for the Garand.

    Even if you have a slow lot, the powder is very useable in bolt guns. If it is a slow lot, you could spend the $40.00 or so and get an adjustable gas plug and adjust it accordingly. With the current availability and cost of powder, I'd find a way to shoot up that WC852.

    I'm sure there's others that have used WC852 and can chime in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  6. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    7,579
    Location:
    Alabama
    My lot is perfectly acceptable for the M1 Garand, was tested in the M1 Garand with 150 grain bullets, and it is acceptable because the port pressure and peak pressures are appropriate for the mechanism.

    I have shot ammunition cans of 174 FMJBT's 57.0 grs WC852 in my Garands with perfect satisfaction.

    I wish I have one of the faster lots as I would liked to use my WC852 in 30-30, 308, 303 Brit, and my lot is too slow for those applications.

    Still, I don’t have the OP’s lot, and he needs to go out and develop his own loads and evaluate function in a Garand.

    If the Garand functions too violently, the whole cycle closer to an explosion with brass ejecting too hard and too far, rims torn, cases stuck in chamber, then the powder is not appropriate for the mechanism.
     
  7. brassbullets12

    brassbullets12 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    kentucky
    thanks for all replys
    i will have to wait until weekend to shoot anything.i did contact jeff barlett sunday, i seen him sat at knob creek, but forgot to ask him. he hasn't got back with me yet.. i did load some a few months back, about 2 gr. under max for 150gr. and it was 2250-2300 fps. then i checked on the net and found i had the slow lot, i went to another project, and now am ready to find out what i can do with 2-3 jugs of powder. i do have some bolts ,i can load for but i wasn't wanting to use this powder
    thanks for all help
     
  8. brassbullets12

    brassbullets12 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    kentucky
    thanks for everybodys help, but my lot is not like everybody's else. i made a mistake when i bought it years ago. i can use it but, it wasn't what i wanted.
    i heard from jeff barlett , this is what he said
    I never sold any WC852 from lot 47288. However, my records indicate it was one of the waivered lots that was used in .30-06 MG ammo only. The burning rate is similar to Hodgdon H450 or Winchester 785.

    the only place i can find a lot of data is from my 1999 lyman book, it has quite a lot of data for h450 and win 785.
    if any body lives in ky and might be intrested in a jug, contact me
    thanks for everybodys help
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page