Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

We are RIGHT, they are WRONG

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Drjones, Jan 1, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Drjones

    Drjones member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,803
    "The unexamined life is hardly worth living."

    Keeping that in mind, I've sought to challenge my views on the RKBA. Obviously, I'm active here and on TFL, I've thought through the arguments from the antis, and such.

    I even have been active on the Michael Moore forums, trying again to challenge my views.

    I really do hesitate to say that gun control is a black-and-white issue, with a right side and a wrong side. Previously, I always thought that a vast majority of issues had at least some gray areas. 'Most invariably, claiming "I am right, you are wrong" is just a display of ignorance, but in our case it is true.

    However, based on what I've read, this is what I have concluded: Each and every last fact, study, and statistic supports the pro-gun people. The anti-gun people have absolutely NO factual basis for ANY of their concerns that they voice. WE, the pro-RKBA group are RIGHT, THEY are WRONG. It really is black and white, right and wrong.

    Among the overwhelmingly intellectual, amazingly cerebral and articulate arguments I have encountered at the MM forums:

    -Guns are just penis extensions. You only want one to prove you're a "real man"

    Compare that with:

    -"i say it takes a lot more balls to do violence with bare hands
    or other non-projectile weapons" YES, that is an actual quote: http://michaelmoore.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7702&highlight= Third reply. :rolleyes:

    -(This is my favorite) "I would rather be raped than be saved by someone with a gun"

    I am still on the lookout for a sound, logical, emotionally devoid argument for gun control. I think I will remain on the lookout, as such a beast simply does not exist.

    Anyone wanna try?
     
  2. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,309
    Location:
    Louisiana, USA
    Well, my dear commentator, when you've had to work with as many rape victims as I have, and seen injuries such as lacerations and tears to the genitals (internal and external), infection with AIDS, pregnancy, shock, emotional, spiritual and physical trauma, the destruction of sound relationships due to the after-effects of the rape... do I need to go on? Anyone who could post such a piece of @#$%&* is either certifiably insane or is a fool beyond my capacity to describe (at least in polite language). What a load of codswallop!
     
  3. Drjones

    Drjones member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,803
    Father: That was uttered by "unamused." She was at TFL very briefly, on my invitation.

    She also advocated the banning of ALL guns. :cuss: :rolleyes:
     
  4. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,724
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Good grief. It makes my head hurt just to read those forums.

    Some folks are so far out of touch from reality that it's pathetic.

    A Police Man protects them
    A Butcher kills for them
    A Farmer Provides crops for them
    The Govt Educates their Children
    And the world is such a nice place to live.

    Until...

    The Police Man cannot be there in time to protect them
    The Butcher succumbs to their teachings that meat is "evil"
    The Farmer dies out because everyone wants to live in the City
    Their Children rebel against them and follow the Govt

    And suddenly the world isn't such a nice place.

    The next words? Most likely " I need a gun".

    Good SHooting
    RED
     
  5. sm

    sm member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    28,389
    Location:
    Between black coffee, and shiftn' gears
    Drjones

    Couple of thoughts:
    -yeah what Preacher said
    -we were ask to challenge ourselves--not give ourselves cerebral hemmorages
    '-can't change people places and things'--they have to do that,
    -we sometimes have to convert one at a time (or small groups) not an entire force at once.
    -Wars are won one battle at a time, focus on a small idea , conquer and go on,
    -'people have the right to be wrong'--true, but that also means people have the right to know the truth.
    - persistence,like TFL proved, some members at TFL and here on THR were once anti's, slowly TFL (patience, compassion, civil, persistence) converted--they have hence converted others.
    -a load is lighter if weight is shared.
    -Lead by example

    I used to be in the OR, saw some things, heard those anti's--or surviving families " you know, I gotta take care of me, police can't camp on my doorstep...me or Dr . can recommend a CHL instructor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2003
  6. TallPine

    TallPine Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,734
    Location:
    somewhere in the middle of Montana
    My definitions:

    RIGHT: living your own life, treating other people with respect, and giving a helping hand once in a while

    WRONG: trying to control how other people live their lives


    Guess which one of these "gun control" fits into?
     
  7. dave

    dave Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    145
    "I would rather be raped than be saved by someone with a gun"




    Did someone REALLY say that? Gee Mo Nee! I think I'm at a loss for words, for the first time.


    Wonder what goes through her mind when some gutter rat sides up next to her and says, "Hey cupcake, just where do you live?".
     
  8. Drjones

    Drjones member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,803
    "Just give him what he wants and you won't get hurt.":rolleyes:

    HER prob, not mine...
     
  9. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    18,681
    Dr Jones. Ask she who would rather be raped than saved by someone with a gun (even a cop?) whether she feels the same way towards a younger sister or her own teenage daughter (if she had one)? I'd like to know her response.
     
  10. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,724
    Location:
    NW Florida
    Where I work guys say that to each other all the time!:D

    Good Shooting
    RED
     
  11. Betty

    Betty Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    933
    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I've heard a few of those and plenty of "I'd rather die than stoop to that level of violence by defending myself with a gun."

    And I return with, "Well, how about defending your kids?"

    And they reply with, "You've been watching too much TV." :rolleyes:

    On challenging my views of the RKBA... My cousin died several years ago as the result of a negligent discharge. The boy who shot him now lives the rest of his life with it. I was a teenager then, but it never crossed my mind that guns should be banned or kept out of the hands of teens so accidents wouldn't happen. Had the shooter's father taught him the basic safety rules as my father taught me, the incident never would've happened. What happened was the result of ignorance and stupidity - the gun did what it was designed to do: fire when the trigger was pulled, and shoot a bullet in the direction it was pointed at.

    And that's what it all boils down to - personal responsibility and accountability. No law can regulate stupidity, carelessness, or even the devious nature in people's hearts. One person may murder using a gun, but another can save his own life with one. And nobody is going to make me give up what I've handled responsibly for years because of the misdeeds of another.
     
  12. Drjones

    Drjones member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,803
    4v50: She hasn't been around the Moore forums for some time. Maybe we scared her off with all our big words and frightening facts!!!:evil:

    I think her response would be that she would of course want the cop to help, but wouldn't want him to use his gun, because we all know that all killing is bad. Even killing rapists. :rolleyes:
     
  13. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,724
    I got a headache when I headed over there. Where's the barf smilie, btw?
     
  14. Drjones

    Drjones member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,803
    Runt: I'm sorry about your cousin. If anything, incidents like that should make one hate ignorance, as that was really the culprit there... :(
     
  15. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    18,681
    Well, if she isn't around any more, perhaps she is beginning to see the light. :) Either that or she's at the Rape Treatment Center getting counseling. :(
    I don't wish her ill will, but I don't understand how some folks can even conceptualize allowing themselves to be victimized.
     
  16. grampster
    • Contributing Member

    grampster Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    11,022
    Location:
    Wilderness of West Michigan
    I have some "liberal" friends. Have known them all my life, since before we even knew about positions on things, or even cared about them. I have watched the evolution and participated in it.
    The generic description of a Lib or Anti or anyone who seems to want to take away the rights of others (usually their comments end with "Its for the Children" or "If your'e not doing anything wrong, why do you fear checklanes?" or "It's for your own good" or "All I want is a safer world and universal peace") is generally true. There is truly no reasoning with them. They are right. You are wrong. Not only are you wrong but a cretin to boot. Most discussions normally turn into them insulting your intelligence or questioning your sanity for holding the position you do. They are driven by emotion not reason. Period!!
    Reading drjones original comment thoroughly points out the genetic difference between them and usn's. drjones questions his conclusions and seeks knowledge and then appears to be open to changing his conclusion or behavior or whatever based on the knowledge sought and found. Libs and Anti's are not wired that way.
    My conclusion about them is another reason why I think institutionalized education is vastly overated: It has produced narrow, ignorant, selfish, emotional and intellectual retards. The trouble is....most of them are in charge.
    grampster
     
  17. GregoryTech

    GregoryTech Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    157
    Location:
    FL
    There are so few American's posting there that I sometimes wonder if it's really worth the effort.

    Even though I know I won't change any minds, I persist in case there are fence sitters lurking. I'd hate for them read just the lies and miss an opportunity to hear the truth.
     
  18. Drjones

    Drjones member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,803
    Excellent post, Grampster!

    Over at the MM forums I have been told I "don't seem very open to the other side...as if I've come here with my mind already made up."

    That's partially true; I've already seen most all the arguments, seen them all too easily debunked by fact and logic. I'm at the MM forums trying to see if anyone else can offer anything fact and reason can't refute.

    They can't.

    Too bad for them...
     
  19. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,882
    The antis' positions are based on unattainable hypotheticals.

    "If criminals obeyed the laws," but they wouldn't be criminals then, would they?

    "If there was no crime" that would be a situation mankind has NEVER experienced.

    "If there was no need to hunt," but the suffering of huge overpopulations of game as they starved would be immense.

    "If...."

    Of course, if their hypotheticals were realistic, there might be some talking room, but they're not and the world we live in cannot be the blissful place the antis assume it would be simply by them achieving their unrealistic and ill considered objectives.

    It all boils down to "Don't answer a fool in his folly."
     
  20. TallPine

    TallPine Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,734
    Location:
    somewhere in the middle of Montana
    But it is working exactly as designed.

    (well, in most cases - I managed to escape somehow, but that was many years ago and the system is working "better" now)
     
  21. waynzwld

    waynzwld Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    194
    Location:
    KasMo
    Drjones, you have learned a valuable lesson of life. 99.9% of everything is black and white, all this "gray area" is just liberal bull to convince all the sheep that anything they say is true. If se if you believe as they say, that everything is gray, they can change at anytime, what they tell the sheep,(and you, if you fall for it) will not question it, even though it might be 180 degrees out of phase from what they just told you last week.

    All these blissninnies are clinicaly INSANE!
     
  22. dave

    dave Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    145
    There is truly no reasoning with them. They are right. You are wrong. Not only are you wrong but a cretin to boot. Most discussions normally turn into them insulting your intelligence or questioning your sanity for holding the position you do. They are driven by emotion not reason. Period!!



    So very true.

    A little OT, but does anyone know the definintion of a racist?





    Someone who is winning an arguement with a liberal.
     
  23. Dennis

    Dennis Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    TX
    We hear so much about statistics. When gun controllers start with their lies, we can show FBI figures to prove the anti-freedom forces are wrong. As another couple "arrows in your quiver," here’s a reference and a jab you also might want to consider using.

    1) Here’s a reference for one we call, “Lies, damned lies, and statistics.â€

     
  24. 2dogs

    2dogs Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,865
    Location:
    the city
    I am still on the lookout for a sound, logical, emotionally devoid argument for gun control.............. Anyone wanna try?


    Sure. I am a tyrant and total gun control makes it infinately easier for me to control your life, and the lives of all those I rule- and makes it much easier to kill you should the need arise.

    Sound, logical, emotionally devoid.

    I win.:neener:
     
  25. Mike Weber

    Mike Weber Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Spokane . U.S.A.
    Miss Unamused is a real paragon of intellect!
    In one of the threads over on the MMBFC site she admitted to being an accessory to a violation of NYCs Sullivan law. One of her friends had brought a handgun into NYC. Neither her or her friend had either an NYC handgun permit or premises permit, making them both criminals. She even posted a thread about these events on the MM board. She also admitted to being so ignorant about firearms that she checked to see if this firearm was loaded by looking down the muzzle. Apparently this was a revolver. She strikes me as the type who spend their entire life living in secure gated communities, far removed from the realities of street crime. One thing that really stands out to me in regard to the anti self defense crowd, is their idea that somehow the criminal really means them no harm and is only after their posessions. Their view of the criminal elements is that the criminals are somehow unfortunate victims of society who have no choice in becoming criminals. They place the lives of the criminal predators on an equal footing with that of their victims. Unamused is typical of the American anti's that I expected to find on the MM website. What came as a shock to me was finding so few homegrown anti's there and so much support for Michael Moore coming from overseas. I had never heard of Micheal Moore until Bowling For Columbine. I have since discovered that the majority of Micheal Moore fans are the America hating left world wide.What it all boils down to is that they resent us for our prosperity. And the fact that we refuse to surrender our rights and soveriegnity to their UN world council. We as American gunowners represent everything that they view as evil in the world. Here is a quote from the MMBFC forum showing how they view gunowners.
    One thing that I've noticed over there, we seem to have driven most of them off of the BFC forum onto other parts of the board.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page