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We get barrels

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by Dave Sample, Dec 11, 2004.

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  1. Dave Sample

    Dave Sample member

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    Here is a barrel done by a very famous Colorado Gunsmith/Pistolsmith that is famous on Guntests Magazine and very well known around the Denver area. I guess he was smoking the good weed from Willie whe he did this one. I will let you be the judge of it. It was in a Caspian/Cold Cup that he did in payment for legal fees in a nasty divorce. I am installing an EZ Fit Kart barrel, a new ejector, and new slide stop and new grips and returning it so my clients Grandson will have a decent shooter. I have to re blue the lower end, also.

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  2. Dave Sample

    Dave Sample member

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    here is what it used to be before it was butchered.

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  3. HSMITH

    HSMITH Member

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    Wow. I don't know that I have ever seen one that bad even from 'Kitchen Table Tom's Gun Works'. My first misguided attempt at making a functional 1911 from abox of parts looks like a masterpiece from the finest maker compared to that hunk of crap.

    Ya 'spose he was bent at what the lawyer charged and did this as payment in kind? Sort of a 'get what you pay for' thing? I just can't imagine that someone would do something like this on accident....
     
  4. perry1963

    perry1963 Member

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    The divorce settelment must not have went his way and he's taking it out on the lawyer.
     
  5. Dave Sample

    Dave Sample member

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    I really can't believe it myself and asked over and over if some one else had touched the gun. The answer was a Big NO. He is a very talented man and I feel bad for him.
     
  6. stans

    stans Member

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    Well, that' one way to get lock up with no vertical movement. Not really the right way, but it is a way. I have contemplated attempting such a thing, but I have always wondered how smoothly it would cycle and how durable the slide stop pin would be. Ok Dave, you have actually seen and handled one done like this, how smoothly did it cycle and what kind of accuracy did it exhibit? I mean, why should I butcher a barrel and slide stop not knowing the outcome when someone else has already done it?
     
  7. Tinkerer

    Tinkerer Member

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    Pictures

    Anyone know why I can't see Dave's pictures, but I can see some of the pictures posted in other threads? All I get is the red X. :confused:
     
  8. MoNsTeR

    MoNsTeR Member

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    :confused:
    I respectfully suggest there ain't no such beast. I'd love to hear who that supposedly is.
     
  9. Bill Z

    Bill Z Member

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    Come out and say what you mean, don't beat around the bush sport. Oh, that might violate forum rules, just like the one that says we don't bring up names of people that cannot defend themselves here.

    You may need to look up the meaning of respect, I think it means something totally different than what you think it means.

    Now, you want to talk about crazy things that 'famous' smiths do to barrels as a crutch to their lack of being able to fit one? What about staking in pins in the lugs to give a tighter lock up at the top of the slide. Wanna guess who does that? Could be two answers that I know of.
     
  10. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six member

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    No such rule, Bill.

    While it may seem to some that comments about someone's work are an attack on that person, telling the absolute, unvarnished truth about someone's work cannot, by definition, be an attack. The truth is the truth.

    There is no rule that I see that says anything about whether or not a person can "defend themselves" here.

    Perhaps you would be so good as to point it out to me?

    Dave Sample?

    Isn't this his work we're talking about?

    And finally, why are you so vehement about this issue, Bill?

    Do you have some other dog in this fight?

    Defending someone who doesn't rate it isn't respect, Bill, it's foolishness.

    Thanks, Bill!
     
  11. Bill Z

    Bill Z Member

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    Actually no, Dave wouldn't do that to a barrel, niether would I, nor would either one of us file a slidestop to fit a barrel, that's foolishness.

    How do you respectfully call someone a liar Jammer? Splain that one to me. You wouldn't call that a personal attack? Also, I don't see where Dave was tring to defend the man, he just didn't reveal him.

    Also, one thing that may not be present in your industry is something that's called professional courtesy in most, especially this one. It would be one thing for a customer to throw the smith under the bus, but not one of his peers. It's this reason that many of us won't work behind a local smith or behind our friends without talking to them first. It's also why many of us are selective of who we do work for, whether we admit it or not in public.
     
  12. MoNsTeR

    MoNsTeR Member

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    I apologize for being too cryptic. I was simply asserting that in my experience (lifelong Denverite until 5 months ago) there simple are no "famous Colorado gunsmiths" that are "well known in the Denver area," at least none that are any good.

    C.T. Brian is famous, and good, but not well known in town.
    The guys at Gunsmoke are well known... as hacks.
    Bart at Gunworks is good, but not well known.
    Steve Moore is good, but unknown outside the IPSC clubs.
    et cetera.
     
  13. pax

    pax Member

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    I rarely wander into this forum, and don't have a dog in this fight -- but Dave Sample, it seems to me that now you've posted it at all, it is terribly unfair to all the other gunsmiths in Denver not to post the guy's name.

    Also seems there's a lot of heat and not a lot of light on this thread. What's the deal with that?

    pax
     
  14. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    A few notes:

    1. I've lived near Denver and been an active shooter for the last 5 years. I have no idea who he's talking about, just like MoNsTeR.

    2. CTBrian is in Grand Junction, which is hundreds of miles from Denver.

    3. That pistol was butchered.
     
  15. Skofnung

    Skofnung Member

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    Maybe the Lawyer did it and he is ashamed of his work... So, he blames it on a Denver gunsmith. Yes? No? Maybe So? Just a thought...
     
  16. Bill Z

    Bill Z Member

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    Well, I will assure you, it isn't CT Brian, he's not even in Denver. Honestly, I think the fellow is now mostely retired, so I wouldn't worry about it. Most people missed the point of the thread, it was the barrel, not the 'smith, the barrel fellows. That's what the post was about.

    Stans was the thinking man in this one, and was right. The thought was there, but that would make the pistol function in a 'jerky' manner, and there is no way to get a consistant lock-up. You can see that there isn't an even wear pattern, in fact, you should notice thee isn't any since the pistol functioned so poorly it wasn't shot.

    Now, 'wear' might not be the best word to use, but what you really want to seemon the slidestop is where the feet cam up on it to produse even marks on both. If one side is heavier than the other it's a quick visual check that the barrel isn't cycling evenly and that there is a problem. There are other indicators to look for also on the slidestop, it can tell you a lot about the barrel if you let it.
     
  17. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Whew!

    Thanks pax...I've been busy as a cross-eyed tomcat at a rat killin' and just saw this one.

    Boys...Play nice!

    Jammer...I've seen this flat thing done to slidestops a time or two myself. I just shook my head in disbelief. These things come from supposedly respectable and knowledgeable people...God only knows where they learned it.

    While warning the readers of an incompetent smith wouldn't be considered
    as foul play...you can draw a lotta heat by telling the truth. Not long ago I
    did a rant/expose' on a company repair shop...without calling names of the people who did the butcherrrrrr...the repairs on the gun. I got lambasted
    by a friend of the bunch and figured that I may even hear from somebody's lawyer over it...so I made it go away. It appears that telling the truth
    has become as unacceptable as pledging allegiance to the flag or saying grave over a burger in public. Wotta world... :rolleyes:

    Now then...Back on topic please! Let us not take the low road.

    Cheers!
     
  18. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    That's misrepresenting the comments in this thread.
     
  19. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six member

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    I don't think Monster called anyone a liar, Bill. I think he simply disagreed about the presence of a good pistolsmith in Denver.

    Perhaps less coffee would help?

    Your concience IS clean, isn't it?

    'Tuner, are you saying that that damage was done on purpose? :what:

    With what, a file? :eek:

    Oh, my god...

    I thought it was the barrel hitting the link- shows how much I know.

    Why did they do it? What was wrong, and why did they think that would fix it?

    Enquiring Minds Want To Know! :cool:
     
  20. Bill Z

    Bill Z Member

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    I've certainly got a clear conscience Lyle, so worry not about that. You obviously missed the entire point of the post, and still don't get it.

    It's been explained a couple of times about the relationship of the slidestop and the barrel, don't know how to make it any clearer, it's certainly not rocket science.

    Yes, it was done by filing or grinding on the slidestop to adust the barrel instead of cutting the lugs properly in the fisrt place. There are two barrel feet and it is imprtant that the barrel be fitted to the slide properly, held straight and level and the feet cut properly to ride the slidestop evenly. That's the basic of the basics. Some people tried to re-invent the wheel. This is one of those failed attempts or weak excuses of an mprovement. It just looks like an accident, more like a train wreck, but yes, it was done on purpose.
     
  21. Jammer Six

    Jammer Six member

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    I agree, it's not rocket science.

    However, reviewing the thread, I'm sorry, but I don't see any explanation of the damage in the pictures, so I'm at a loss as to where the "...couple of times..." is.

    Could you point them out to me?

    What on earth are they trying to accomplish with this?

    Doesn't this LOWER the barrel in the slide? Why would someone want it lower?
     
  22. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Why?

    Jammer asked:

    Doesn't this LOWER the barrel in the slide? Why would someone want it lower?
    _________________

    It's done like that whenever a hard-fit barrel with an oversized lug is used, and the "smith" doesn't have a lug cutter to correctly fit the lug...or he doesn't have the skill or the patience to fit it by hand. He files away a little at a time until the sidestop pin will cam the barrel up into vertical lock. it does work, but as Bill observed...it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

    Now, I believe in expedient field repairs or goin' a few thousandths out of the window when necessary...but that little trick is off the scale.

    Cheers!

    Tuner
     
  23. stans

    stans Member

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    This is truely the end of days, not only was I told I was right, but now I am told that I am a thinking man?!!!!! :what: Live large because the end must be near! :scrutiny:
     
  24. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    The End is Near

    nawwwww stans. All this time I been tellin' ya you was good...Ain't I been tellin' ya you was good?

    You just gotta start gettin' up a mite earlier is all... :neener:
     
  25. Peter M. Eick

    Peter M. Eick Member

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    Even an "observer" like me can tell that was poorly done.

    I guess I have to respect your decision not to tell us who all did it. If I can see it is a serious problem then I bet any reasonably informed person would have asked the "unnamed smith" to do it right.

    Interesting to see it though. Nice pictures!
     
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