We get barrels

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Let us clear this up now. The owner has sworn that no one else has worked on the gun. He is my best friend of 38+ years and he believes that it was that way when he got it back from the Smith. I have grave doubts about it and would never disclose the guy that did it. He was known to do good work for some and crap work for others, but I have never figured out who was who in that time when he was a master smith. It hurts me bad to think the guy would turn something like this loose.
The gun has had thousands of round through it and was a Jam-O Matic from day one. It was a Gold Cup that had a Caspian Lower with the rails beat down and tightened. The checkering was hand done and excellent. 20 LPI on the front strap and the front of the trigger guard. Not as good as mine, but very nice. I can't show you that because he has his name stamped on the frame.
I am installing a Kart NM Barrel and bushing, a new ejector, and a new slide stop in it and re finishing the lower Flat Black. The top end is my Electroless Nickle Finish that I use to do down in Raton, NM years ago. It still looks like the day I plated it.
I do not denigrate other people in my business, no matter how bad their work is. I have mentioned several times that I shut this shop down because I became the "Court of Last Resort" around here and all I was doing was going into 1911's trying to patch up terrible work. I never get to see the good work. Just the screw ups. This man is retired now and it does not matter who he is . There are many fine smiths in CO and I do not know of anyone there I would not use. Let us put this one back in the storage locker where it belongs, as I regret that you didn't understand what this was all about. I wanted you to see a welded up P.O.S. barrel fitted badly and who did it is not a factor. Sometimes when you weld stuff, it is so hard you can't cut it with hand tools. This may have been the case here. I do not apply heat to 1911's for any reason. I can buy a new barrel cheaper than I can have someone weld up a mediocre one. Heat changes the metal, and it rarely improves the gun. End of Story.
 
Ok, I certainly understand your feelings about who is doing this work.

On a different accord would you and Tuner consider posting your contact information and a list of Smiths YOU would consider using?

I am just looking for references. You guys seem extremely stand up type of foks and if I were to need smithing I would like to talk to you all or someone you might trust.

I recognize this might be perceived by some to be almost advertising or endoresment, and if so lets drop it.

Thanks
 
I am not familiar with the Colorado Pistolsmiths any more because I left there 12 years ago December 2nd, 1992. I know too much about a lot of them to say anything good do I will just tell you two men I can recommend. One is Chuck Rogers, the other is Don Williams. Rogers Precision and the Action Works. I had dinner with Don and his family yesterday and I have know Chuck for years. I know you will be pleased with their work. The Club 100 or the other Union will not be discussed by your truly. www.louderthanwords.us has a gathering of fine smiths that I do not know, but have heard many good things about. Also Ted Yost is a great pistol, rifle, and shotgun Smith down in Phoenix and I would feel very good about using him for any personal work on long guns that I need done. He also does the best re-finishing around here. There are many people who take hand guns to gunsmiths. I would take hand guns to pistolsmiths. Much of the bad work you hear about is done by people who went to Gunsmith School and are trying to be all things to all people. They are great guys, but not like us. We are the brain surgeons of our business. All I do is 1873 Type action tune ups now and I am the best at it there is. It is not arrogance if you can deliver the goods, and I can. I am respected everywhere in our business except here, and that does not bother me at all. I consider the source.
All of the good guys have very long waiting lists. I never did. I picked and chose who I worked for and still do. My turn around time on 1873 tune ups is 7-14 days. I schedule them in so I can deliver them quickly and keep the parts I need in stock. I really have not done very many since 9/11 and that suits me fine. I am an O.F. now and lazy. I have yet to have an unhappy customer in the 1873 field, and only a few jerks in the 1911 field that I knew I should have passed on and didn't trust my instincts. You can't win them all.
 
Dave said this on THR;
I do not denigrate other people in my business, no matter how bad their work is.

Dave also said, on his own website;
Dick does good work, but he also a great BS'r. He blew somke up everyones butt about Larry Vickers and Larry will never build a 1911 as good as my worse student. He has done a real good job of his Dawg and Pony Show for years and has always had that famous waiting list for years at a time. I owe him a great debt of gratitude because he was one of the reasons I started building 1911's myself. I scheduled them in and delivered them in 90 days. He is still tweakin factory guns as far as I know. He is like the Tuner. he has one year of experience 25 years in a row. Whereas I have over 20 years of experience.

Which is it Dave..........are you mis-quoting yourself? On your own web site and here?! Now you're trashing one of the mods. behind his back..........

Send us a better pic of that slide stop pin please.

Dave said;
The gun has had thousands of round through it........
 
Since I own my own forum, I can say anything I want there without any posts like you and Old Fuff do . I meant every word of it and thanks for dragging it over here. I was hoping you would! We do not have any so called moderators or rules except for one. If you screw up, you are gone! You are welcome to read anything I post over there. It's open to one and all.Now you guys go smoke some more funny stuff. I am too busy now to duke it out with imaginary people who are afraid to say who they are.
 
Links

Dave said:

I meant every word of it and thanks for dragging it over here. I was hoping you would!
***********

Yeah, Cap'n...I figgered that was why you posted the link over here. And that's why I called attention to the fact that the method that you use for determining headspace is WRONG...and potentially DANGEROUS...if the reader
tosses a gun together from parts tables at a gun show...uses the wrong method for determining that the gun is safe to fire...and blows half his hand off because of it.

I don't give a fat rat's fanny what you post on your forum. I do care what you post...or link to on THIS forum if that post or link can result in a damaged gun or injury to the shooter who reads it and takes it as gospel. If we don't have a legal responsibility, we at least have a moral responsibility.

Thank you for your support.
 
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Dave

Since I own my own forum, I can say anything I want there without any posts like you and Old Fuff do . I meant every word of it and thanks for dragging it over here. I was hoping you would! We do not have any so called moderators or rules except for one. If you screw up, you are gone! You are welcome to read anything I post over there. It's open to one and all.Now you guys go smoke some more funny stuff. I am too busy now to duke it out with imaginary people who are afraid to say who they are.
Because I'm a newbie, and just trying to figure out what's going on, I have a question.

Does who the moderators are and how many of them there are make a difference?

Is it okay to say one thing when there's no moderator, and something different when there is?

I'll get used to the rules on the internet one of these days...

Thanks, Dave!
 
Thanks, Jammer. I have never figured it out, either, so I can't help you. If you would feel better about my methods, buy some Go and No-Go headspace gauges, mail them to me, and I will throw them in a drawer in the Shop somewhere. I didn't get any xmas presents from any of you so it might make up for that. All I get here is a load of crap by ignorant amateurs so it would be a pleasant change!
 
Thanks, Jammer. I have never figured it out, either, so I can't help you. If you would feel better about my methods, buy some Go and No-Go headspace gauges, mail them to me, and I will throw them in a drawer in the Shop somewhere. I didn't get any xmas presents from any of you so it might make up for that. All I get here is a load of crap by ignorant amateurs so it would be a pleasant change!

Dave, what part of all this is crap, and who are the ignorant amateurs?

I'm just a newbie, and I'm trying to figure out what the best way to check my chamber is, so I'm looking for help from anyplace I can get it.

What's wrong with go/no-go gauges, and why don't you use them?

Thanks, Dave!
 
bad smiths

well guy's i don't like to talk about somebody that has done a job for me. unless the job is sub-standard i know gunsmiths work hard at there trade. i have a problem with smiths that know there work is sub-standard and don't have the guts to correct it. i worked with a smith here in houston for 2 years trying to get him to fess up to doing a bad job. he re-barreled a 98 mauser for me with a pac-nor match barrel. the rifle would not shoot a 5" group. i went over the gun with a fine toothed comb and was left with the decision that it was the barrel. took it back to the smith. they stated that they cleaned it and shot it and nothing else, supplied me with a target with a nice 1" 3 rnd group. paid him the 80 bucks he said it cost shook my head and took it home along with the load that they said they used to shoot the group with. to make a long story shorter i loaded some of the loads i was supplied with. well when i went to the range i foung that the rounds would not chamber. toke thre rifle back home tore the ammo down resized the cases till the sizing die was in contact with the shell holder. the cases are crush fit in the chamber. they will chamber but you have to use force on the bolt handle. went back to the range with the now new ammo. shot 5, 2 1/2" groups. well to say the least i'm not happy called the smith and he told me that according to his records that they did nothing to the rifle except clean it and shoot it and there is nothing wrong with the rifle????? i guess he thinks i'm stupid or something.. if you want his name e-mail me at [email protected] and i will be glad to give you his name. he has a business and builds ultra-lite rifles that look nice. :banghead: :cuss:
 
HMMMMMM, anyone care to count the piddlin' matches going on here in this thread alone. Surprising, even more so some of the participants.
 
Perhaps someone needs their med dosages reviewed?

It's the mood swings that some seem to suffer that amaze me.

People who are nice on day and then name calling everyone else the next.

Did ya ever notice that those who keep threatening to leave seldom do?
 
Kinda like reopening closed threads when the mood suits you, huh? I think it was a fishing expedition anyways, and I must admit it worked. It does however speak to the true character of more than one person here, doesn't it?
 
Character?

Bill...I don't quite know what to make of that implication. I closed the thread to let the fire die down a little...and reopened it because a few questions came up about how many times the gun had been fired in that condition,
and I didn't know. Maybe a few of the people who asked me will step up to the plate and try again...or maybe not. One thing for sure...if it starts to head for a flame war, I'll close it again before I'll see anybody banned over it.

Regards...
 
I'll admit I had mixed emotions when I saw the thread closed.
I was getting tired of the childish actions of some people and I really don't give two hoots of a holler who the BOZO was who butchered a formerly fine piece of Browningness since I am very very selective as to who I have work on my weaponry. So when it degraded into diaper dipping I was relieved to have it shut down.

But

I do think that the thread served a usefull purpose on educating people what NOT to do. I can imagine someone who doesn't know any better buting a POS like this and upon seeing the "difference" (dang it's hard being polite when describing the action of a DU$&FU@#) might ask and be told by the MORON who did the work or the SHYSTER trying to palm it off that it was some sort of fancy top secret super fix to make the gun work much better than formerly know to anyone outside of the secret handshake set.

People need to know that if they see this, that this gun has been SCREWED UP BEYOND REPAIR* by an IDIOT.

Therefore I was glad to see the thread reopened so than intelligent people could further discuss the shoulds and should nots.

And in case you still can't tell where I'm coming from let me just say that if you don't like the way the moderators run things around here, then just go

somewhere else.



*(commonly known as FUBR and actually pronounced fubber**)



**(if you think it's foobar then you probably don't know how to pronounce chaps either)
 
Moderator Actions

Easy there Bear! :D It ain't worth havin' a stroke over.

While it's generally accepted that a moderator may open, close, edit or delete a post or even a whole thread at his or her discretion...I've tried to maintain a
middle of the road approach on what is known as "The Hammer". If a member feels that I've been too hasty, I'm open to a protest or an appeal as long as it's done in a civil manner.

In this instance, I closed the thread because it was headed in the wrong direction. I reopened it because a few points were made to me via PM
that probably warrant further investigation...Points that I agreed with, but
refrained from bringing up due to trying to keep the waters calm. If those questions aren't asked soon, we'll let the matter drop and move on. I
won't ask the questions.

Again...Just for what it's worth...I've seen that modification a few times as an emergency measure only...but never to the extent that this one was done.
The only reason/excuse for fitting a lug and pin in this manner is lack of time or equipment to do it correctly, and the gun has to be returned to service
until it can be turned in to an armorer.

Standin' by...
 
No stroke here Tuner, Hells Bellsâ„¢, my heart is about the only part of me that still works right.

I was just calling a spade a spade. Now as to whether it's a shovel or a suite of cards, that remains to be seen.

I have seen several moderators reopen threads in my time here. Which is one of the great things about THR. You can actually talk to the Royalty and they'll listen. :D
 
I have a question. If the reason for filing the top of the pin flat is to allow an oversized barrel lug to cam upward on the pin and force the barrel into vertical lock, then why:

1) Does the flat appear to have fresh file marks with no sign of polishing?

2) If the front corner of the lower lug was riding up on the pin...why does the radius immediately behind the flat on the pin not show any sign of contact?

3) Looking at the center of the pin in the area that the link would have contacted when it unlocked the barrel, I can't see any contact, like the
barrel were locking on the link (after many thousands of rounds). :confused: So it looks like this barrel is neither locking on the lug nor the link, nor does it appear to be pivoting on, nor riding the link.

AAaacckkk! I don't get this and it hurts my head. :confused:
 
Fishing%202.jpg


Fishing, anyone?
 
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