Well, that was humbling (iron sights at 200 yards).

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Corn-Picker, Jun 13, 2016.

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  1. Corn-Picker

    Corn-Picker Member

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    I was practicing with my CZ 527 in 7.62x39 at 200 yards today. I have iron sights installed at the moment (ghost ring with patridge post). I was shooting at one of the "Big Buck" life size targets. I fired ten shots off the bench, the total group size was 12", and nine out of ten fell within a 10" circle. I was shooting 122 grain Tula FMJ (a 2.5 MOA load in my rifle), so overall I'm OK with my results. I also fired from a hybrid prone-kneeling position using a nearby rock, and managed about a 6" group at 100 yards.

    It was certainly humbling to use iron sights when I know what I can do with a scope at that range. I've concluded that the furthest shot I would ever take with the CZ527 is about 125-150 yards, assuming perfect conditions and my 1.5 MOA hunting ammo.
     
  2. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    Good to know.
     
  3. Llama Bob

    Llama Bob member

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    That's not horrible, really. For non-accurized rifles, I think a reasonable marksmanship standard is 4MOA from field positions with good center of group to POA agreement. You're getting about 6MOA, so you're not far off and you know you've got another 1MOA of improvement on the table by switching ammo. So you're not far off. A little technique improvement, and you should be solid.

    The reality is that most people who own rifles can barely shoot them at all even with some pretty serious crutches, so you deserve credit for trying a reasonable field shooting exercise like shooting off the rock at 100y.
     
  4. Coop45

    Coop45 Member

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    I considered the NECC sight, but decided a scope was better. Now that the rain has stopped, I need to take it to the range.
     
  5. Pudge

    Pudge Member

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    If you really want to eat humble pie, see how you do off-hand.
     
  6. henschman

    henschman Member

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    6 MOA is decent, but you can do better! Keep at it. If you really want to improve your field position shooting with irons sights, bring that CZ to an Appleseed weekend marksmanship clinic: www.appleseedinfo.org. It's the best $60 you will ever spend on training.
     
  7. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

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    Most people wouldn't shoot more than a few rounds with irons when they see how utterly miserable they are with them. I bought my first carbine about 3 years ago and 6 moa was a good day. You did pretty well if you are new to irons. I won't shoot it past 100 yards because I'm just not that good and my vision is failing. It gets better though after about 1K rounds. ;)
     
  8. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Member

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    To get my thinking straight...are you shooting peep sights or iron sights(rear blade with a notch and post front). two of my rifles have "open iron sights" and four have peeps. I do better with the peep sights! My vision is not so great anymore either so the peeps give me a little help.

    Mark
     
  9. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Not the most accurate ammo in not the most accurate caliber. I'd say you did OK.
     
  10. RainDodger

    RainDodger Member

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    Yep, I think you did fine! My personal limit is 100 yards without optics. It's kind of sad when you get "old"....
     
  11. Nathanael_Greene

    Nathanael_Greene Member

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    Consider yourself fortunate that you can clearly see a target at 200 yards. I'd be lucky to shoot minute-of-truck-tire at 200 yards.
     
  12. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    Exactly. I have to practice offhand. I can't get a leadsled in my treestand.
     
  13. Dr T

    Dr T Member

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    Not bad. Certainly much better that I would expect to do, even with my "new" eyes.

    Consider this for reference:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute
     
  14. Traffer

    Traffer Member

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    When I was a kid and could see, I loved to shoot with a Model 1917 with the peep sight. At 200 yards you would be amazed at how accurate you could be with it. The following adds the element of speed but gives an idea of the limits of what is possible.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute
     
  15. thump_rrr

    thump_rrr Member

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    Last weekend I went to a 2 day precision rifle clinic/shoot on a Canadian military base.
    A few days before the clinic we were told that we were bumped off the 600m range for Sunday and all we had to work with was a 100m range so we were told to bring whatever we wanted to shoot off of barricades and some props such as a boat simulator.
    I figued I would bring my M1A National Match which I haven't shot for a while.
    I started off shooting at a 10" gong then moving on down to a 6" and finally at the 3" hitting every shot.
    I wish I would have brought my rebarreled Garand along for the ride but I ran out of time to load ammo for it.
    M1A_zpsldnq73zd.jpg
    IMAG1187_zps74swapoa.jpg
     
  16. 35 Whelen
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    35 Whelen Contributing Member

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    Want to really be humbled?? Attend an across the course High Power match and see what those guys do shooting aperture sights at 200 yds...offhand.

    I used to shoot the same discipline on the reduced course, which is 100 yds. with the targets scaled down. My best offhand score, shooting at a 6" bull, was an 85. If memory serves I had 8 of 10 shots in the black. Ahhh the good ol' days.

    35W
     
  17. bangswitch

    bangswitch Member

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    CMP matches are a good way to develop your off-hand skills. 300 yards, iron sights only, prone, sitting and kneeling or standing.

    Our club had a "plate shoot" a few weeks ago. a 6" china plate painted black hanging on a white background. Any rifle, iron sights only, sitting at the bench elbow supported (no sandbags), 300 yards. 4 minutes to make 4 hits with 4 shots. Most hits in least time wins. The winner hit 4 in 26 seconds, with a M1A NM. I managed two hits in 1-1/2 minutes, also with an M1A. That 4" black plate is just a tiny dot within the huge peep hole of the rear sight. I was almost surprised to get two hits.
     
  18. 35 Whelen
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    35 Whelen Contributing Member

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    Absolutely. And I find it amazing how deeply entrenched the discipline of this shooting can become in one's mind. For example, several years ago while on an elk hunt walking the lower edge of some timber , I spooked a bull and he came crashing out of the timber below me, running out across an opening about 75 yds. away. In a matter of scant seconds and without even thinking, I had dropped into the sitting position and had the rifle snugged up tight with the sling, just like the Sitting Rapid Fire, and put a bullet through his ribs.
    A few years later on another elk hunt I spotted a bull making his way through some scrub spruce a little over 350 yds. below me. Almost instinctively, I drop into the prone position, sling wrapped around my arm just like in Prone Slow Fire. As the cross hairs are slowly waving high behind the bulls left shoulder, I can hear one of my High Power mentors repeated instruction: "Shoot the first "10" you see.". So I did. :D

    35W
     
  19. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    There are times when," I`d rather be lucky than good" seems to fit nicely. :)
     
  20. FireInCairo

    FireInCairo member

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    How effective is 7.62x39 out that far on a deer?
     
  21. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Member

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    Last weekend I got to the range. All alone so I could just take my time. I put a 12" target at 200 yds. I gotta say, even 12" looks tiny over that front post! Shooting Privy, 62gr, fmj I was able to stay in the black 9 of 13. barely. Certainly not good, but fun to try. I've been telling myself to just shoot that distance for a while just because I need to work on it. Been goofing off too much...most of the time I'm at 100 yds.

    Mark
     
  22. Traffer

    Traffer Member

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    I doubt if I could hit a 12" target at 200 yards anymore. I am satisfied shooting 50 yds with a 22 and a scope now. Happy when I get a 1" group. It's still just as fun though.
     
  23. Corn-Picker

    Corn-Picker Member

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    At 200 yards the 7.62x39 ammo I use (Double Tap loaded with 123 grain Barnes TSX) would have 900 ft-lbs and be traveling just over 1800 fps (the minimum recommended velocity for a TSX bullet). That should be plenty to kill a whitetail.

    I don't plan to shoot at any deer past 150 yards, where the bullet has about 1100 ft-lbs and is going 1950+ fps. The CZ 527 in 7.62x39 is the perfect iron sighted deer rifle for me. Six pounds ready to hunt, only three feet long, and the caliber is good for as far as I can shoot it.
     
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