Went into condition orange for first time today. Rate me - overreact?

[seekinganswers]

Let me set the stage: another male and I are working for school on something at an outside cafe. There have been some robberies in this area. my back was towards the cafe, his back was exposed to the parking lot. We are both looking at computers.

I see a black male approaching from behind him. He starts to say something (I don't remember what - something about hey I'm blah blah I need blah blah) and I automatically stand up (I really didn't even think about it it was the first time in my life I have automatically reacted to something like this), back away from the table, and get in a defensive posture (one foot behind other, hand at my side but I NEVER exposed my weapon or grabbed it). I reacted automatically like this because he was definitely a crackhead/homeless person, and when I stood up I noticed his hands were in his pockets which made me very nervous and skeptical. He had ugly yellow teeth and a dress about him that told me he was up to no good. Also seemed too warmly layered for our warm weather .

I have never seen anybody's eyes get so big in my life. He looked like a deer in headlights. I got the distinct impression that he knew from my posture/body language that I was armed and prepared to hurt him if the need arose. He says hey man I'm just something something I don't even know I just said I don't care we don't have anything get out of here.

He backs away, keeping his eyes on me and apologetically saying (this is the most vivid memories I have - I remember what he said) "Aw man I wouldn't do nothing to yall sorry man I'm just a student like you all!" He kept his eyes on me the whole time as he left and I kept mine on him.

The guy I was with I think didn't even really realize what happened. Til it was over - he couldn't really see the guy I don't think until he walked away.

I later explained to my work partner that I do carry a firearm and I would only have drawn if it had been an immediate threat. But I definitely went to condition orange - I was steady during it but after the adrenaline gave me the shakes.

Did I completely overreact here? What would you have done? There was just something about a guy the way he looked popping up behind us all of a sudden, hands in pocket. And the way he lied at the end ("I'm just a student like you all" - yeh right) made me think he this was not some misunderstanding on my part.

I really want some feedback here - if you need more info to judge how I acted ask. Feedback is important because if I needlessly escalated the situation in any way I might reevaluate my carrying - I don't want to be more a hindrance than a benefit to myself/society. If I overreacted I will expedite getting serious formal training so I know exactly how to react.

 

[jmahalek]

Really hard to say without witnessing it. You felt there was a significant threat and instinct took over. From what you described, I don't think I would have done the same.

 

[seekinganswers]

What would you have done jmahalek

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I think you did fine. I would have probably done the same thing. It sounds like you were mentally prepared to defend yourself and didn't let your nerves get the better of you and draw your side arm.

One thing I may have done differently would be to tell your buddy of what's going on or move him out of the way, although it sounds like it happened too fast for any action with your friend.

 

[seekinganswers]

Deer Hunter: I never felt like I was imminently about to draw, but I was definitely prepared to if he did anything really threatening. Does that make sense??

I mean how often do random crackheads come and talk to you outside? I don't think that's ever happened to me. Maybe I should have just stayed put.

It's just an awful feeling is it normal to second guess afterwards?

 

[AnthonyC.]

I later explained to my work partner that I do carry a firearm and I would only have drawn if it had been an immediate threat. But I definitely went to condition orange

That sounded just a bit like somthing Gecko45 would say.......LOL

 

[kyo]

tough call when you aren't there seeing it. I don't think you are really doubting yourself. Obviously your subconscious instincts thought something was wrong. Don't doubt those ever!

 

[jmahalek]

Probably watched closely as I wasn't in imminent danger. I have told myself repeatedly that I would be hard pressed to pull my firearm. I think it puts someone committing a crime in a bad position by possibly forcing a violent reaction, and you in a worse position (i.e. you better be prepared to take someone's life because you've just made yourself a target). I'm concerned with criminal charges in self defense, but also civil penalties.

Now, if some idiot is standing in a store blasting people away, no brainer. If someone has a weapon on a family member, no problem. The rest becomes fuzzy for me.

Just my .02.

 

[seekinganswers]

I have been robbed before, so maybe I'm overly aware?

I agree jmahalek - everything is so fuzzy, which nobody likes to talk about. It's rarely clear in the heat of the moment. I'd almost rather have a clear situation so I knew I was in the right than all these shades of grey.

Is there any way I can train so that I have the proper mindset? It's so easy to put bullets on paper or practice avoidance, but it seems hard to practice how to have proper level of reaction to all these different scenarios in an actual moment.

 

[TexasRedneck]

I think you did just fine - you were prepared to step up to the next level, but never did because the threat backed down. Had you remained seated, you would've had a potential threat within reach of you - and if he had a knife, it would've been bad.
I've had similar incidents happen where some idiot comes up on me at a light having walked down a row of vehicles without doing anything, then suddenly knocking on my window hard - except he DID see my weapon, because he was entirely too close, and I was hemmed in by traffic.
Turns out there was an unmarked PD unit behind me. He "lit me up", asked if I was okay, and then drove off after commenting how he was surprised at my reaction time. Never asked for license or anything else (which surprised me, but I think he was still as surprised as I was over the whole incident).
But, no - IMO, you did just what you needed to do. Period.

 

[seekinganswers]

Kyo: from what I've said, and his reaction later - somehow going into "i would never have done nothing to you" - why would he say that nobody said anything about doing anything!? Do you think from all that that he was in fact up to no good?

 

[The Deer Hunter]

The way I see it is that he made sure that he made his chances of living, in the event of an attack were as high as he could make them himself.

In other words he stayed alive. He may not have stayed alive if he didn't follow his gut. Chances are he would have lived anyways but why risk it?

 

[seekinganswers]

texasredneck: thanks for feedback. I didn't think of it consciously at the time but you're right - at a minimum putting distance between yourself and a possible threat seems wise. It helps lessen chance of fists/bladed weapons directed at you.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Look........

"Uh-oh!" is too damned late. I've lost friends (both on and off duty) because of that - and it's just not worth it. Protect yourself without overreacting - which is exactly what you did.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

seekinganswers: "... a dress about him that told me he was up to no good ..."

Not all transvestites are predators.

 

[seekinganswers]

lol duke of doubt.

 

[TexasRedneck]

DoD writ:

"Not all transvestites are predators."

Voice of experience??<g,d&rlh>

 

[Duke of Doubt]

TexasRedneck: "Voice of experience?"

You should see the drag races around here. Hey, the winters are long and cold ...

 

[Mud4Brains]

Do you live in an area where there aren't many black people? I live in New Olreans. If I see 100 men in a day, 80 of them will be black. Out of those 80, probably 70 of them will look exactly like that man you just described.

From my point of view, (and I'm not harping on you), it sounds like you seriously over-reacted. You created a situation where there initially wasn't one.

What I do is survey my surroundings constantly so there are no surprises or "instinct reactions". When your situational awareness is constantly high, then you have time to assess and react properly.

What I would have done would have simply been to remain at the table and keep an extreme watch on everything about the approaching man while simultaneously making my piece handy under the table. Watch his gait and his gaze and see if he's preparing to make a move for your laptops or your buddy's wallet, or whatever else. Watch his hands to see if he's making a move for his burner. Is he paying particular attention to anything in your vicinity? When he get's close enough, say in a friendly inflection loudly so everyone around can here "HOW YA DOIN' BUDDY? FANTASTIC DAY HUH?" That's going to make EVERY body look at him and change any plans he might have had. And if he had no plans, he would most likely respond normally in a friendly manor and everybody around would simply think "Man! That guy sitting over there talks kinda loud, but he seems like a nice guy."

Absolutely nothing happened and no one got offended.

 

[Geno]

Well, probably the guy was just "seeking answers" to some questions. Unfortunately, that same made "seekinganswers" go into condition orange, and the perp went into condition skid-marked shorts.

Seriously, I don't know if you did, or if you did not overreact. The last person who came up to me too fast I simply retorted, "You really don't wanna step up on me!" Did I overreact?! Who knows. We are both alive and healthy.

Glad all worked out in the end.

Geno
(Previously Doc2005)

 

[seekinganswers]

Mud4brains: there aren't many blacks around here, no. I'm not racist though - I was just judging him based on his lies/dress.

what do you think he was up to? Have people come up to you randomly like that before? If i was passing him on the street I wouldn't care. It was the fact he came up.

And there wasn't anyone else outside with us who would've heard. If I'd been in a crowded area I would've remained seated.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I don't see anything wrong with taking an aggressive posture and telling someone in no uncertain terms that they need to move on when they get too close.

There are simply times that worrying about being polite has to take a back seat.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

If you don't actually draw, you haven't really done anything wrong except being a little edgy.

Last night my girl, her neighbor and I went out on the town. At one of our stops, they got out of the cab faster than I did as I paid, and a shady punk started the approach and glide path toward them. I wasn't carrying a firearm (I don't carry if I'm going out and drinking), but you bet I stood up straight and tall getting out of that cab. Either he recognized me or he recognized that he wasn't getting their purses without some pretty serious resistance. He took a sharp turn and walked off with a little hand flip. If he really wasn't on the approach, it's very much okay, as I didn't actually say or do anything over the top. And if he was, it's still okay, as he broke contact without so much as a staredown. No problem at all.

My point is that a little show of strength need not involve actual threat or use of deadly force, and isn't necessarily confrontational if done right. The OP did it right, albeit a little strong.

 

[seekinganswers]

TexasRifleman: thanks again. I guess what I'm so pissed about is the fact that I felt this guy by acting stupidly put me in this position. And even though I was in control, it just sickens me to think that with a simple draw of my firearm stuff could have gotten really bad. It's a big responsibility I'm learning - I intellectually knew it before but this is the first time I had to actually experience what a responsibility it is.

Do you have any good links/resources to how to get the mindset so as to react appropriately in all cases?

 

[CWL]

I have struck the bladed "pose" twice before with sketchy people walking up to me -seems that BGs understand what that stance means and immediately want to break contact...

You didn't do anything wrong, didn't break any laws, etc. Even if it was a guy looking for change or directions, you told him to "git" and he did.

No laws broken by either side. Everyone went home safe.