Western movie knives...

[Shanghai McCoy]

Inspired by an ongoing thread over in the Black Powder forum I got to thinking about knives in westerns. Having recently seen Tombstone,( again..), that ring guard bowie Ike Clanton is messing around with as the Earps are leaving town came to mind.
Anyone else recall some knives from the westerns?

 

[Armored farmer]

I remember the opening scenes of "Big Jake" when john wayne stuck an automatic folder in the tree next to the bad guy's head.

Tell Sacket's antler handled Bowie.

Gus's spear point sheath knife. "Go ahead...cut the skin, do it now!"

 

[.308 Norma]

I couldn't tell a lot about them, but Quigley had a great big "Bowie" knife of some kind on his cartridge belt, and another knife, a small one in his boot. He used the boot knife to kill one of the "bad guys." And a little later, he used the big knife to cut strips of kangaroo hide in order to make a rope. He then used the rope to teach a few Aborigines how to lasso.

 

[Speedo66]

James Coburn only had eleven lines in the original "Magnificent Seven", but he certainly let his switchblade do some talking, especially in the knife vs. gun duel scene.

 

[hso]

Anyone else recall some knives from the westerns?

Sad to say, most movie knives bear no resemblance to useful knives (or those actually used in the era).

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Sad to say, most movie knives bear no resemblance to useful knives (or those actually used in the era).

Too true.
But, since we've often discussed the good, and bad, of western movie firearms I thought the knives could get some time in the "ring" as well.

 

[JN01]

Various movies about the Alamo obviously had Bowie knives.
James Caan used throwing knives in El Dorado.
Last of the Mohicans (1992) featured a lot of edged weapons.
Sam Elliott had a big Bowie in some of his movies, The Sacketts, or maybe Conagher.

 

[rust collector]

We saw many large knives in the belts of Hollywood's idea of frontiersmen, and I always thought the knives used were likely more along the lines of Ka-bar's Old Hickory series. Apparently there were quite a few large fancy knives carried or at least purchased in the 1820s through 1860s. Here's a link to a somewhat poor quality video that explores knives of that era produced in Sheffield and other cutlery centers to supply demand on or near the frontier:

 

[Barry the Bear]

Sad to say, most movie knives bear no resemblance to useful knives (or those actually used in the era).

Have you ever seen a knife in a movie in that era that was historically accurate or at least useable and not crazy large?

 

[Mn Fats]

^ No. Because nobody remembers a small historically accurate knife. So it has to be overly big. If it's a Western, it's about guaranteed that it'll be a Bowie.

If it's the 50's and not a western, it'll be a switchblade. Other than swords, that's about the only two blades I remember from movies.

 

[hso]

Have you ever seen a knife in a movie in that era that was historically accurate or at least useable and not crazy large?

Sure, but you look for them since they're not attention getters.

Every butcher knife, all the "scalpers", small folders.

 

[Barry the Bear]

Sure, but you look for them since they're not attention getters.

Every butcher knife, all the "scalpers", small folders.

So was something like the Western W49 or Case or any western bowie pretty much useless?

 

[rust collector]

We have always loved our ceremonial sabres and regalia. Most of the knives in the video were clearly more for show than go, as the handles were angular and materials not chosen for durability. Spanish notch indeed.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Magnificent Seven (1960) Fastest knife.

 

[rust collector]

And of course movie knives invariably produce zipflops

 

[hso]

So was something like the Western W49 or Case or any western bowie pretty much useless?

They didn't really exist. Those big "paddle" bowies are an outgrowth of movies.


Real bowies, whatever that means, are generally capitalizing on the Jim Bowie legend for "dudes" with money once the Sheffield Bowies appear . Before the Sheffield knives you see knives that look more like Mediterranean dirks or butcher knives with guards in various forms. The original Bowie knife is described as a straight back 9.5" long, 1.5" wide slab handled knife. The Bowie brothers successively have fancier knives made as Jim's legend grew. Prior to The Iron Mistress "bowies" look like the bowies I've posted.



Look at Old Hickory butcher knives, Nesmuk, and Kephart for what was actually used in the frontier west.







Beaded sheaths are the most eye catching feature of "authentic" western knives.

Western museums are good sources for information. https://ciscosgallery.com/search?q=knife

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Now isn’t this topic about knives from the westerns?
We all know that most of the knives in westerns were made for show. But just as the knives were not real in older westerns so were the gun belts and saddles.
But always remember that there’s no rules in a knife fight.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Like Gunny says, the movie knives were for the theatrical effect in the production and often carried by "the bad guy". In the movie "The Long Riders" there is a big knife fight between a couple of guys. I also just remembered that in "Silvarado" the gambler, Slick, has a fancy knife carried in his boot that gets used later in the movie...

 

[DDDWho]

My attempt at a period correct frontier knife. It’s a Ontario Knife Co. 10” Old Hickory butcher with an eBay Marbles sheath

 

[DDDWho]

I bought this as a wall hanger. My requirements were stainless and made in USA. It’s a Bear and Sons from Amazon.

 

[hso]

https://blademag.com/tv-and-movie-knives/knives-last-of-the-mohicans

 

[lemaymiami]

I still have one of those Old Hickory blades as a working knife (the stiff boning blade, about seven inches long and utterly useful - as long as you keep it away from saltwater...). I can actually sharpen it to a much better edge than my working butcher knives (stainless Forschner blades in curved "breaking style" blades, a 10" and a 12" "scimeter"). That said most of what we see on the tube or the big screen is from myth - not reality. Can't remember which movie maker said it but believe it went - when myth and truth conflict - tell the myth... I guess it sells better.

That goes double for any scenes where some skilled hombre uses a throwing knife (like most, when I was a kid I practiced diligently throwing otherwise good knives at boards, trees, anything stationary that the blade might stick in)...

It wasn't until years later I learned that tossing away a perfectly good weapon wasn't exactly a great idea... It's well to remember that every witness to a real "knife fight", stabbing, or cutting that I ever interviewed over 22 years... never even saw the weapon in use - and they were looking at the action from close range... That doesn't exactly mean that "big, bad blades" aren't used in conflicts - just not the majority of the time...

It was sure easier as a kid to believe what you saw in the movies...

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Can't remember which movie maker said it but believe it went - when myth and truth conflict - tell the myth... I guess it sells better.
It was sure easier as a kid to believe what you saw in the movies...

"When the Legend becomes Fact, print the Legend."
From "The man who shot Liberty Valance".

 

[theotherwaldo]

I've found a number of old knives in caches and old buildings along the Rogue, Applegate, Old Mormon and Waldo trails and the ghost towns that are scattered around them.
All of the knives or sheaths were some sort of butcher or skinner knife designs, although a few had pretty fancy beading or carving on the sheath.
One sheath that I found along the Rogue trail had a name that I traced to an old miner that was still living in a local rest home in the late 1960s. He was almost 100 years old.