zxcvbob
Member
How much did the media cost direct from Pellets? They don't have a price list online. It seems to run about $10 per pound on eBay, plus shipping.
Wet tumbling on the cheap? Yes! It can be done!
- Thread starter PapaGeno21
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PapaGeno21
Member
40 shipped for 5 lbs.
zxcvbob
Member
I emailed Pellets over the weekend, and I got a reply back Monday that they do not sell less than 50# bags, but if I wanted to get together with some buddies and do a group buy they could do that -- otherwise contact one of their distributors. So I ordered 5 pounds from http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com (about $51 delivered) and it got here today. (boy, that was fast!) I've been playing with it this evening.
It's been raining this week. I went to the shooting range today and shot some .45 Colts and .223's, and picked up all the nasty muddy brass I could find. (my .45 Colts were pretty bad, even though they never hit the ground) I also picked up a bunch of Wolf and Tula steel .223 cases, some of them pretty rusted.
I started with the .45 Colt brass. I decapped it (25 pieces) and put it in the HF tumbler and filled it about half full of water. I added a shotglass full of the SS media and a splash of an acid dairy equipment rinse. It has phosphoric acid and nonsudsing surfactants. I started it up and let it run for an hour and then checked on it.
The outside of the brass looked good. The insides were just starting to get clean, and the primer pockets still looked untouched. I thought maybe I didn't have enough media so I added another shotglass full.
An hour later I checked it and the belt was broken
I took the brass out and wiped it off with a towel. The outsides looked new but not polished. The insides were almost clean, and the primer pockets still had black stains -- but they were tumbled for less than 2 hours.
I put them in the vibratory tumbler, along with some nickel .45 ACP that I picked up (decapped and rinsed) Next I was going to run a bunch of mixed 9mm and .380 brass with a little .38 Special mixed in, but that will have to wait until I get a new belt.
The one thing that concerns me is the SS media look long enough to get caught inside a .223 case -- and .223 is the main thing I bought the stuff (then .30-06, and lastly pistol brass)
Somewhere around here I have an ancient Lortone model 45C rock tumbler. It might need a new motor, but those don't cost all that much. It has a significantly larger drum than the HF tumbler (it's a 2-drum knockoff of a Lortone 33B)
It's been raining this week. I went to the shooting range today and shot some .45 Colts and .223's, and picked up all the nasty muddy brass I could find. (my .45 Colts were pretty bad, even though they never hit the ground) I also picked up a bunch of Wolf and Tula steel .223 cases, some of them pretty rusted.
I started with the .45 Colt brass. I decapped it (25 pieces) and put it in the HF tumbler and filled it about half full of water. I added a shotglass full of the SS media and a splash of an acid dairy equipment rinse. It has phosphoric acid and nonsudsing surfactants. I started it up and let it run for an hour and then checked on it.
The outside of the brass looked good. The insides were just starting to get clean, and the primer pockets still looked untouched. I thought maybe I didn't have enough media so I added another shotglass full.
An hour later I checked it and the belt was broken
I took the brass out and wiped it off with a towel. The outsides looked new but not polished. The insides were almost clean, and the primer pockets still had black stains -- but they were tumbled for less than 2 hours.I put them in the vibratory tumbler, along with some nickel .45 ACP that I picked up (decapped and rinsed) Next I was going to run a bunch of mixed 9mm and .380 brass with a little .38 Special mixed in, but that will have to wait until I get a new belt.
The one thing that concerns me is the SS media look long enough to get caught inside a .223 case -- and .223 is the main thing I bought the stuff (then .30-06, and lastly pistol brass)
Somewhere around here I have an ancient Lortone model 45C rock tumbler. It might need a new motor, but those don't cost all that much. It has a significantly larger drum than the HF tumbler (it's a 2-drum knockoff of a Lortone 33B)
blarby
Member
Vacuum cleaner belt.
zxcvbob
Member
Will that work? (I thought a vacuum cleaner/sewing machine belt would be too big)
I can stop by the HF store and see if they have any belts in stock. And also check Ace Hardware and Grainger to see if they have an O-ring the right size. I do have a VC belt...
PapaGeno21
Member
That is weird. My tumblers each came with 6 spare belts. I have yet to break one though and they have been running way overloaded compared to what you ran for at least 100 hours now.
However your mixing solution is not what I am using so I cant tell you if its going to work or not.
As I stated in my first post, I am using:
1lbs SS Pins
1 Lbs Brass
Water filled 1 1/2" from the top
1 Second squird of Dawn dish soap
1/2 a 9mm casing of LemiShine
Run for 4 hours and enjoy your brand new brass.
However your mixing solution is not what I am using so I cant tell you if its going to work or not.
As I stated in my first post, I am using:
1lbs SS Pins
1 Lbs Brass
Water filled 1 1/2" from the top
1 Second squird of Dawn dish soap
1/2 a 9mm casing of LemiShine
Run for 4 hours and enjoy your brand new brass.
zxcvbob
Member
This tumbler is about 5 or 6 years old. I took the belt off and it was petrified. I've run much heavier loads in it before. Maybe I need to get a Lortone belt. BTW, a vacuum cleaner belt won't fit (too bad) it's the same length but way too fat, and all the length is taken up just going around the driveshaft pulley.
I'm using the phosphoric-based cleaner because I have it already. It seems to work, and it should work good on steel too when I get that far (but so should citric acid) An hour and a half tumbled in this solution cleaned the brass better than overnight in corncob media, it just wasn't finished yet.
I'm using the phosphoric-based cleaner because I have it already. It seems to work, and it should work good on steel too when I get that far (but so should citric acid) An hour and a half tumbled in this solution cleaned the brass better than overnight in corncob media, it just wasn't finished yet.
zxcvbob
Member
I cleaned a big handful of 9mm and .380 brass, with a few .38 Specials mixed in. After 1 hour, the 9mm and .380 was done (including the primer pockets) but the longer Specials were not. I took everything out after 2 hours and it all sparkled, even the .38 Special primer pockets. Then I put them in a towel to dry without rinsing them and they spotted they're in the vibra-tumbler right now.
The last batch I'm doing tonight is steel .223 cases. I put about 40 in the drum, and I handpicked my worst ones. I peeked after one hour and they looked shockingly good. The really badly rusted ones weren't quite done yet but close -- they were clean but still a little rough where the rust was (I may throw away 2 or 3 awful ones even if they look usable)
ETA: after 2 hours all the steel .223's look good. I'm not sure I can tell the rusty ones from the good ones. (the rust wasn't very deep, there was just a lot of it, gritty and it was deep enough it wouldn't wipe off) Oddly enough, they are all darker gray than they started, and that's not just because they are wet. Might be a phosphate thing. I rinsed them and they are on a warm hotplate now drying. I'll process the rest, a larger batch, tomorrow.
they're in the vibra-tumbler right now.The last batch I'm doing tonight is steel .223 cases. I put about 40 in the drum, and I handpicked my worst ones. I peeked after one hour and they looked shockingly good. The really badly rusted ones weren't quite done yet but close -- they were clean but still a little rough where the rust was (I may throw away 2 or 3 awful ones even if they look usable)
ETA: after 2 hours all the steel .223's look good. I'm not sure I can tell the rusty ones from the good ones. (the rust wasn't very deep, there was just a lot of it, gritty and it was deep enough it wouldn't wipe off) Oddly enough, they are all darker gray than they started, and that's not just because they are wet. Might be a phosphate thing. I rinsed them and they are on a warm hotplate now drying. I'll process the rest, a larger batch, tomorrow.
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zxcvbob, cleaning and volume, I have 4 tumblers, it is doubtful I will have more than one running at any one time, a friend has 1,000s of cases to clean, no matter what I have he has twice that many, or more, he needed to improve the design of the mouse trap, we he started on a 25 gal stainless, chair drive, variable speed wet tumbler, it worked great, complete with handles and wheels.
Then, suddenly and without warning he orders the sonic/ss pins/additive system, no reason for me to ask why, my first question was how many cases will it hold, and he did not know, anyhow, first he has 1,000+ 50 BMG cases to clean, next he has 1,000s of 308 W cases to clean, his sonic cleaner has not been taken out of the boxes.
I have no interest in acquiring more cases, back in the big inning I would acquire cases that no one wanted to clean because of oxidation, as you know I used vinegar for a maximum of 15 minutes for the worst of them and then finish with tumbling, the caution was about the acid effect on the zinc, and NOW!? It is lime shine and acid of different origins, time flies, and to think before the Internet in the early 50s reloading manuals gave formulas for cleaning cases and cleaning barrels. The formula for cleaning cases used H2SO3, for a maximum of ‘less than’ three minutes' followed by cleaning in boiling water and rinsing.
F. Guffey
Then, suddenly and without warning he orders the sonic/ss pins/additive system, no reason for me to ask why, my first question was how many cases will it hold, and he did not know, anyhow, first he has 1,000+ 50 BMG cases to clean, next he has 1,000s of 308 W cases to clean, his sonic cleaner has not been taken out of the boxes.
I have no interest in acquiring more cases, back in the big inning I would acquire cases that no one wanted to clean because of oxidation, as you know I used vinegar for a maximum of 15 minutes for the worst of them and then finish with tumbling, the caution was about the acid effect on the zinc, and NOW!? It is lime shine and acid of different origins, time flies, and to think before the Internet in the early 50s reloading manuals gave formulas for cleaning cases and cleaning barrels. The formula for cleaning cases used H2SO3, for a maximum of ‘less than’ three minutes' followed by cleaning in boiling water and rinsing.
F. Guffey
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Twmaster
Member
Just wanted to follow up. I got a 2 pound order of stainless pins from STM. (His shipping was rocket fast)
Split the pins up and put about 50 rifle cases in each tub, added a squirt of Joy and a dash of Lemishine. Ran for 4 hours. I'm impressed. While some of the primer pockets were not sparkly they did get mostly clean. Many were spotless!
One 270 WIN case I picked up at the range was tarnished badly (not white like the zinc was coming out) It looks like new.
I've rinsed them and they are drying on the counter top.
Very pleased.
Split the pins up and put about 50 rifle cases in each tub, added a squirt of Joy and a dash of Lemishine. Ran for 4 hours. I'm impressed. While some of the primer pockets were not sparkly they did get mostly clean. Many were spotless!
One 270 WIN case I picked up at the range was tarnished badly (not white like the zinc was coming out) It looks like new.
I've rinsed them and they are drying on the counter top.
Very pleased.
Just did my first few run throughs with this set up tonight and am really impressed. My 2 lbs. Of stainless arrived yesterday from STM. I ran 100 .40's in each drum with 4.5mm (half a 9mm...lol) of lemi shine and a short squirt of generic dish soap. I wont post pics because they'll only look like the other pics of perfectly clean brass. When I got in from the range I tumbled dry then resized and deprimed then wet tumbled after that. Only oddity is one drum of cases came out kinda orange. I think I may have had a longer squirt of generic dish soap in that one. Tumbled again with lemi shine and no soap and they look much better. I'm sold!!!
-BunnMan
-BunnMan
“Only oddity is one drum of cases came out kinda orange”
Lime shine and nothing but water and cases, vinegar with nothing but cases soaking in a container, back to the orange ‘kinda’ the kinda orange comes from acid acting on the zinc, I use a time factor, I clean the worst of cases in vinegar for a maximum of 15 minutes, that 15 minutes is for the life of the case meaning I do not use vinegar to clean cases over and over and over, the purpose of the vinegar cleaning to to reduce tumbling by 3 days+.
Again, I have purchased 1,400 30/06 once fired surplus cases for .01 cent each, 15 minutes in vinegar, washing, drying and washing again then tumble for 1 hour +, back to orange, if I left the cases in the vinegar for 20 minutes + the cases turned orange, add stainless pins, while tumbling the pins hammer and chip away, while hammering and chipping the ‘kinda orange’ is chipped away also.
I mention this because in the old days using anything that turned a case orange was considered a Voo Doo practice.
Then there was a time when published instructions suggested/recommended H2S03 reduced to 2 1/2%, time factor, maximum 3 minutes, then rinse in boiling water twice with a time factor, then the warning/caution, cases cleaned by this technique turned the cases black, and the claim, after the case turns black they are pickled, pickled for storage if storage is desired.
F. Guffey
Lime shine and nothing but water and cases, vinegar with nothing but cases soaking in a container, back to the orange ‘kinda’ the kinda orange comes from acid acting on the zinc, I use a time factor, I clean the worst of cases in vinegar for a maximum of 15 minutes, that 15 minutes is for the life of the case meaning I do not use vinegar to clean cases over and over and over, the purpose of the vinegar cleaning to to reduce tumbling by 3 days+.
Again, I have purchased 1,400 30/06 once fired surplus cases for .01 cent each, 15 minutes in vinegar, washing, drying and washing again then tumble for 1 hour +, back to orange, if I left the cases in the vinegar for 20 minutes + the cases turned orange, add stainless pins, while tumbling the pins hammer and chip away, while hammering and chipping the ‘kinda orange’ is chipped away also.
I mention this because in the old days using anything that turned a case orange was considered a Voo Doo practice.
Then there was a time when published instructions suggested/recommended H2S03 reduced to 2 1/2%, time factor, maximum 3 minutes, then rinse in boiling water twice with a time factor, then the warning/caution, cases cleaned by this technique turned the cases black, and the claim, after the case turns black they are pickled, pickled for storage if storage is desired.
F. Guffey
Jaxondog
Member
I think you have done good enough on the wet stuff cause look at the guy's on here that have said they were either going to get one or start it with the one they have. I'm headed to get me a wet tumbler now. Thank's for the editorial. Nice job.
been using this method and same HF tumbler for over a year, have yet to break a belt, just lube every other use <followed the instructions; lube where the rollers spin>, i live in southern ca and have access to lemons (own tree, almost year round, different varieties) so use that instead of lemishine, anything to save a bit of money. just air dry outside in the heat using aluminum pans in the sun.
on a side note, was thinking of cutting some slots on the side to let more air flow around the motor but so far so good have not had any issues. this is the way to go for me as I do not do enough volume ( i still only use 3 single stage presses, but load for both rifle and pistol) so no need for a Thumler tumbler.
on a side note, was thinking of cutting some slots on the side to let more air flow around the motor but so far so good have not had any issues. this is the way to go for me as I do not do enough volume ( i still only use 3 single stage presses, but load for both rifle and pistol) so no need for a Thumler tumbler.
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Fguffey,
If I interpret your post correctly you are saying that my darker batch of cases was due to a heavier dose of lemi-shine? They are still noticeably darker than the other batches I've done but I don't think its dangerous. Maybe I should drop back to 4.0mm of lemi-shine, lol.
If I interpret your post correctly you are saying that my darker batch of cases was due to a heavier dose of lemi-shine? They are still noticeably darker than the other batches I've done but I don't think its dangerous. Maybe I should drop back to 4.0mm of lemi-shine, lol.
Learned another lesson last night. Ran a batch of 50 cases that i fired through a work up over the weekend. These started as Federal 180gr FMJ then were fired, dry tumbled, decapped and resized, wet tumbled, reloaded in five steps for the work up, fired, dry tumbled, decapped amd resized, wet tumbled last night. This batch came out with an odd marbly black color everywhere the resizing die had touched. They looked fine at the head and rim, very defined line around the case where the black stopped. I picked one up and noticed the black was sticky and smudgy, i could rub it off with my finger if I pressed REAL hard. I figured maybe i didnt use enough dish soap...I had only been using a modest few drops since the orange cases. I retumbled using about 4mm (a little less than hakf a 9mm case) of LS and about one second of gemeric dish soap...came out like jewelry inside and out
I knkw they don't HAVE to be this clean to reload but damn they look sharp! And I swear they shot cleaner in my pistol. Though that may be the same perception that tells me my truck is faster after I change the oil and wax it, lol.
-BunnMan
I knkw they don't HAVE to be this clean to reload but damn they look sharp! And I swear they shot cleaner in my pistol. Though that may be the same perception that tells me my truck is faster after I change the oil and wax it, lol.
-BunnMan
Twmaster
Member
I'm pretty pleased with this method. Here is a typical sample from a huge pile of brass I got this week:
Here is an after shot:
That's after 4 hours in the tumbler. 1 pound of SS media in each drum along with a 1 sec squirt of dish soap and a pinch of Lemishine.
I'm very pleased.
Here is an after shot:
That's after 4 hours in the tumbler. 1 pound of SS media in each drum along with a 1 sec squirt of dish soap and a pinch of Lemishine.
I'm very pleased.
Twmaster
Member
After some testing I'm finding 2 hours to be as effective as 4 hours in the tumbler.
zedsdead
Member
The harbor freight tumblers are back on sale, $44 each. I just picked one up, I'll post some before and after pics. I don't have the SS tumbling pins yet, but I can't wait to try it out.
T Bran
Member
Just out of curiosity has any one tried using some plain old steel BB's in place of the SS pins.
I realise they wont get the corners of the primer pockets but should hit everything else.
Just a thought.
I realise they wont get the corners of the primer pockets but should hit everything else.
Just a thought.
345 DeSoto
Member
GLOOB - I believe tumbling in stainless steel pins work hardens the brass, causing your problem with more force needed...
silicosys4
Member
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When I was getting into reloading I did the math,
Thumlers tumber - $160
Lifetime supply of Media - $80
Roughly $250 took care of me for life. I figured I'd spend more on corncob and walnut media throughout the next five years or so.
500 pistol cases takes roughly 10 minutes total to process. I don't mind air drying cases on my benchtop.
Thumlers tumber - $160
Lifetime supply of Media - $80
Roughly $250 took care of me for life. I figured I'd spend more on corncob and walnut media throughout the next five years or so.
500 pistol cases takes roughly 10 minutes total to process. I don't mind air drying cases on my benchtop.
lil dragon
Member
I'm so cheap that I took a couple pounds of 1/16" 316L TIG wire and cut them down to roughly 3/16" for my media. I also bought a HF single rock tumbler and use the Dawn/Lemi-Shine combo to tumble my brass. 30-45 minutes and they are near perfect. I attribute my short tumble times to the sharp ends of the "pins" I cut. Works for me.
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