Whaddya think about a new pistol game?

[ev780]

The rules nazis at IDPA and the 40 round stages at USPSA have driven me to Steel Challenge lately. 100 rounds (I'm perfect, no makeups ), simple, straightforward, easy setup, in and out!

What do you think of combining the best of both? A series of standard stages with lower round counts but still test the skills that need testing. Maybe the NRL22 model where we all shoot the same thing every month? Doesn't matter but something efficient, simple and easy.

Some other random thoughts...

-Unfortunately, for the near future, mag capacity is a thing. In order to be inclusive (sorry that word makes me want to vomit too) and grow we have to deal with that. We will need to download mags to force reloads and design stages to be mag agnostic but, all that is doable.

-Unfortunately, for the near future, expensive/scarce ammo is a thing. 300 round weekends plus practice has to be considered.

-I think the divisions need to be rethought. We think too much about the iron rather than the function. Three basic divisions would be Open, Concealed Carry (IDPA like rules) and, Standard (OWB, one or two piece belt open top kydex). There could be others but you get it. Not too far from what we have, just clean it up.

-I realize that tight rules are inevitable as money becomes involved. Even more reason to introduce something new. We can enjoy it for a while before it gets ruined by those who ruin things.

-Like steel, .22, PCC, beginners, etc, divisions are easy to incorporate.

-MD's and set-up crews will likely love it.

-Some will call it boring. Maybe what kills my idea.

-Everyone picks brass or they shoot naked while everyone yells "Shame" at them ala, GOT! Just a pet peeve. Pickup your damn garbage!

There is a definite place for IDPA/USPSA, I still shoot and enjoy both, just not as much anymore. If I could pop in shoot 100-150 rounds and wrap it up in 4 or 5 hours, I'd shoot more often.

What say you? I won't reply much since the mods and I don't get along too well but I'll be watching and chipping in where I can.

-ev-

 

[LiveLife]

To offset ammunition shortage/cost issue, how about 22LR exception or new 22LR division?

Same rules as current but allow use of:

• GSG 1911 22LR and others in place of 1911
• Advantage Arms 22LR slide kit and others to convert match pistol
• Allow 22LR pistol versions of same/similar pistols like Glock
• CMMG 22LR conversion bolt kits for ARs to use in 3 gun

Since I had stocked up on 22LR, during protracted ammunition/component shortage I started shooting more and more of GSG 1911/CMMG 22LR conversion bolts in my ARs and bought Advantage Arms slide kit for my G22 for same manual of arms shooting drills and same triggers with ARs/Glock.

And 22LR inventory is improving and price coming down below $40/500 shipped (Not great pricing like $20/500 of 2019 but way cheaper than centerfire ammunition) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-shipped-pricing.902560/page-6#post-12335793

 

[Jim Watson]

What do you think of combining the best of both?

Do you have a home range? They would probably be glad to have somebody set up a match that would draw people who find fault with existing programs.

To offset ammunition shortage/cost issue, how about 22LR exception or new 22LR division?

All three of the IDPA matches in my combat radius are running subcaliber divisions. On their Practiscore pages:

"Until further notice: due to ammo shortages, shooters are allowed to use .22LR pistols and/or rifles in the matches. Shooters using .22LR should register under Division: NFC and under Classification: your usual classification level. Any questions, please call Nicky"

"All the usual IDPA gun categories plus 22s and 380s."

"Rimfire Pistol
Rimfire Carbine"

 

[ev780]

Do you have a home range? They would probably be glad to have somebody set up a match that would draw people who find fault with existing programs.

Yes and we do.

To offset ammunition shortage/cost issue, how about 22LR exception or new 22LR division?

100% and noted in my random thoughts.

 

[LiveLife]

To offset ammunition shortage/cost issue, how about 22LR exception or new 22LR division?

100% and noted in my random thoughts.

"Until further notice: due to ammo shortages, shooters are allowed to use .22LR pistols and/or rifles in the matches. Shooters using .22LR should register under Division: NFC and under Classification ... "Rimfire Pistol/Rimfire Carbine"

.22 ... divisions are easy to incorporate

 

[GJeffB]

Doesn't matter but something efficient, simple and easy

The match formerly known as IPSC? Generally known as the match poses the problem, the competitor solve it as s/he sees fit. Low round count stages and either mandatory reloads or at least movement so as to provide the equal opportunity to reload allowed revolver, single stack, and high cap arms to compete relatively evenly. Several easy scoring schemes. Two power levels only. If you want to game the rules with Buck Rogers Ray guns or small caliber "major" loads, knock yourself out. Complete 5 stage matches ran ~ 100 rounds or less. All random, not pre-announced stages.

-jb, old school baby, particularly the early iterations of IPSC

 

[Jim Watson]

All three of the IDPA matches in my combat radius are running subcaliber divisions. On one Practiscore page:

"Until further notice: due to ammo shortages, shooters are allowed to use .22LR pistols and/or rifles in the matches"

Was rendered moot. Hard set steel rendered my Nelson uncompetitive and frustrating.
I guess I was the last to notice, the only other .22 shooter had a rifle and he had the magazine capacity to "drive them down".

I'll be back to centerfire there.
I will find out about one of the others next Saturday.

 

[Smokin Gator]

Random stages? Different for each shooter? Or are you trying to do a blind stage? Set up people know the stage. RO and resetters know the stage. Isolate shooters from vision or sound from stage? It might be fun but it won't be a competition.

 

[GJeffB]

No, of course not different stages for each competitor. Just not published in advance. RO doesn't compete. RO and stage designer set it up just before the stage. Pre-stage instructions to the competitors, e.g. Each target require 2 hits, the target behind the no shoot target requires a head shot. After the 2nd target (3rd, whatever) you must advance toward the next position, reloading on the move. Engage targets 4 and 5 with 2 rounds and hit the steel stop target.
If a competitor wants to advance to the second position s/he may choose the route. May choose the order to engage targets, may choose left to right or vice versa. etc etc

-jb, fun and competitive

 

[waktasz]

If I'm going to leave my house, drive an hour, pay a match fee and be on the range for 5 hours, give me the 300 round weekends. I'll just shoot less of them.
That said, every USPSA match I shoot I bring 200 rounds and always have left over, except the one huge local match that runs a 10 stage event two days back to back. They get almost 200 shooters and don't have any reason to change.

 

[waktasz]

Also mandatory brass picking can eat me. I don't pick up brass at local matches. If you want to, you can do it afterwards once the stages are torn down.

 

[GJeffB]

waktasz, I don't blame you wanting to get your shooting's worth. The OP specifically mentioned

100 rounds (I'm perfect, no makeups ), simple, straightforward, easy setup, in and out!

. Clearly different strokes for ... well, you know.

mandatory brass picking can eat me

That's understandable. Some folk might need the brass to shoot the next match. Happy to have some donate theirs to us.
Regardless, the OP asked for alternatives. Not what some may require, or demand, just alternatives. Many that shot the initial IPSC adopted the "solve the problem" concept and became the better for it. Unfortunately much of the objections led to the IPSC early match "looseness" downfall. The gamesmanship, the fudging rules, the not really practical carry gear, it all became a game rather than an International **Practical** Shooting Confederation. Aside from our shooting there was a huge comradery that went way beyond some of the modern "win at all costs" to the "let me give you some pointers." Not saying that doesn't still exist, mind you.

I have old photos of an international tour group - Sweden, Germany, Italy, Finland, others, that were touring the US and shooting local IPSC matches and landed with us in Tucson AZ. They didn't need their brass either. But they shot 4 or 5 stages of 10ish rounds, showed off their hardware, and fired unannounced stages with full bore weapons, under unknown circumstances, and took home trophies and memories.

-jb, that was then, this is [apparently] now, all are good

 

[waktasz]

I just mean mandatory brass picking DURING the match is what I hate. It slows down the event. If you want brass you can grab it after.
As for your other complaints...sounds like boomer logic to me.

 

[GJeffB]

waktasz,
To be clear, I have suggestions, not complaints. The "complaints" seem to come elsewhere.
Uhhhh, "boomer" logic. Nice touch.
Well FWIW, I and many others, especially throughout the southwest thoroughly enjoyed IPSC. We shot large and small matches. IPSC generally went away due to the gamers. I'm guessing you didn't enjoy the events when you shot IPSC and moved to other disciplines. All well and good. Considering this is The High Road I'll suggest to each their own.

-jb, the reply to THE OP stands