What’s the correct move in this ambush?

Elkins45

Elkins45

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Warning, the video in this link is pretty harsh. The victim basically absorbs a full extended magazine in an ambush.

I’m posting it to ask what is the correct tactic should this happen to you (God forbid)? I know the standard answers of don’t make these kinds of enemies, situational awareness, don’t pump gas after dark,… My question is what should this guy have done? IMO he didn’t have the ability to exercise the best option, which I believe would have been to draw his own gun and fire while taking cover around the car. Clearly he either wasn’t armed or couldn’t get to it for some reason.

What’s his second best option? Charge the shooter and grab the gun to reduce the number of hits? Running away obviously didn’t work.

Video is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/s/IGATab40ur
 
The Army teaches that if you are caught in the kill zone of a near ambush your only possible out is to attack into the ambush. It seems like this was the only option here. An attack into the ambush would have placed the shooter off balance and given the victim a slight chance of a better outcome.
 
In the video, I don't see an outcome that would be positive. The fight or flight response or freeze takes affect immediately unless you have trained yourself or have been trained what to do even then in a cold calculated move like in the video you are still vulnerable. You will be shot regardless. The only possible scenario where you might live would be to rush the gunman, knowing that you will be shot and you pray to God that the shots do not hit a vital organ. Even if you happen to reach the gunman will you have the know how to physically stop him permanently, remember you are still bleeding. In the above video, only God could have saved that man. Just my 2 cents.
 
A military response to an ambush is alot of suppressive fire toward the enemy during the assault. That's not a good option in a civilian situation.

Sometimes you are just screwed. Whether that's superior numbers, timing, or whatever there just isn't anything you can do to survive certain situations. We don't like to think it but if you are completely caught with your pants down it's common to freeze. It takes a high level of training to respond appropriately to attacks you never saw coming.
 
I agree with MikeInOr. Sometimes there is no "good" option. Either flee or attack directly. After 31 years working in the criminal justice system, I would speculate that this was some kind of "hit" or revenge killing. Its probably not an attempt to steal the car. I am very, very cautious on those rare occasions when I stop at a gas station in or near an urban area.
 
I didn't download the app either but I do remember one where a car pulls up to a guy pumping gas, they get out to jack his car and he just pulled the nozzle from the car and hosed them down with gasoline. They left without firing a shot.
 
shafter said:
A military response to an ambush is alot of suppressive fire toward the enemy during the assault. That's not a good option in a civilian situation.
Click to expand...
The big difference between a near ambush in the military and this near ambush is the distance between the victim and the assailant is measured in feet, not meters. A direct attack into the assailant would put the victim on top of him in a second or less.

You don't have time at that range to draw and engage. You have to charge your attacker with everything you have and do your best to knock him off his feet. This is a hand to hand fight.

It's not much of a chance, but it is a chance. A better chance then running and certainly better than saying "sometimes you're just screwed" and accepting death.

BTW I had no trouble opening the link on my PC.
 
Jeff White said:
The big difference between a near ambush in the military and this near ambush is the distance between the victim and the assailant is measured in feet, not meters. A direct attack into the assailant would put the victim on top of him in a second or less.

You don't have time at that range to draw and engage. You have to charge your attacker with everything you have and do your best to knock him off his feet. This is a hand to hand fight.

It's not much of a chance, but it is a chance. A better chance then running and certainly better than saying "sometimes you're just screwed" and accepting death.

BTW I had no trouble opening the link on my PC.
Click to expand...
It's certainly a potential option. I haven't seen the video yet but speaking in general to thay type of situation I'd probably be more inclined to sprint away at an angle to buy the second needed to draw. It also ties into the natural instinct to bolt.
 
I think it goes without saying that the best course of action is to not end up in this situation in the first place, which involves a number of choices that had to be consciously made ahead of time: where you are, when you're there, what degree of situational awareness you have, what access to weapons you have in the situation, are you a gang member, and so on.

But, again, you asked us to respond to us as if we were in this situation. Sometimes you're just in a bad spot if you get caught with your pants down, so to speak. We were always taught to fight your way through an ambush, but we were also taught that you should really not be on the receiving end of an ambush in the first place (at least if you want to live). In this case it appears that the victim didn't see the gun until his attacker was pretty much on top of him. Even if he had an accessible gun on his person at the time, the other guy had beat him to the drop. So, closing distance and engaging with the attacker hand-to-hand would have probably produced the best chance of a positive outcome here, but I think there's still a good chance the victim would have ended up absorbing at least a bullet or two in that attempt (maybe not a fatal one though? the fight isn't over until you're dead).

Again, I have to emphasize that the odds were pretty well stacked against the guy in this particular situation. It appears that the attacker was firing shots on the victim within less than a second of first reaching for his gun. There's no realistic time to react in that scenario, particularly when you aren't expecting a fight.

What I'd really like to know is the back story in this case. This clearly wasn't a robbery attempt, it was an ambush for the sake of murder. There's got to be a motive there, and I'm guessing it's a gang-on-gang situation, thought it could be a personal vendetta, or something else. All the same, it appears that the shooter definitely came there to kill this particular person.
 
Jeff White said:
The big difference between a near ambush in the military and this near ambush is the distance between the victim and the assailant is measured in feet, not meters. A direct attack into the assailant would put the victim on top of him in a second or less.

You don't have time at that range to draw and engage. You have to charge your attacker with everything you have and do your best to knock him off his feet. This is a hand to hand fight.

It's not much of a chance, but it is a chance. A better chance then running and certainly better than saying "sometimes you're just screwed" and accepting death.

BTW I had no trouble opening the link on my PC.
Click to expand...

I agree, the odds are slim in this case, but charging your attacker probably takes a 0% chance of survival to something better than that.
 
This one is kind of a Kobayashi Maru situation. He didn't seem to take notice of the shooter right away so he was totally behind the 8-ball before he could really react. If his situational awareness was a little higher and if he was armed he might have been able to get to cover behind the pump as he drew. The best odds were probably to rush the shooter. Yeah, he'd had probably take a few bullets but the gunman would almost certainly have been taken off guard. It's highly likely that he would be focused on retaining his weapon instead of going hand-to-hand. I've read (but can't empirically verify) that 80% of gunshot victims survive if they make it the hospital, so the odds of going at the assailant are probably better.

I'm kind of curious about the details as to who the victim and perp were (to each other at least).
 
I agree 100% that the only chance to survive that was through the attacker. It definitely seems like a targeted attack with low odds of survival.
 
Poor situational awareness is what that appears to be. He was taken totally unaware.
 
The big difference between a near ambush in the military and this near ambush is the distance between the victim and the assailant is measured in feet, not meters. A direct attack into the assailant would put the victim on top of him in a second or less.
Click to expand...

This is the one I was referring to in #9.

www.youtube.com

Man spray Gasoline on would be ROBBERS (no one got hurt)

The man had a special way to scare away criminals... None of them got injured, yet it was pretty effective. :)
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

Seems very effective, gets all 3 that jump out of the van after him to retreat and gets the driver to begin to bail before they even get back in.

Food for thought if you are a slow draw, already having the nozzle at low ready...

4-0 for the home team, without any shots fired.
 
Last edited:
jmorris said:
This is the one I was referring to in #9.

www.youtube.com

Man spray Gasoline on would be ROBBERS (no one got hurt)

The man had a special way to scare away criminals... None of them got injured, yet it was pretty effective. :)
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

Seems very effective, gets all 3 that jump out of the van after him to retreat and gets the driver to begin to bail before they even get back in.

Food for thought if you are a slow draw, already having the nozzle at low ready...

4-0 for the home team, without any shots fired.
Click to expand...
Justification for adding a lighter to your EDC kit.
 
Jeff White said:
The Army teaches that if you are caught in the kill zone of a near ambush your only possible out is to attack into the ambush. It seems like this was the only option here. An attack into the ambush would have placed the shooter off balance and given the victim a slight chance of a better outcome.
Click to expand...
AGREED, if you missed the situational awareness class,and went to you car in "that" hood.

Then you saw the horrible outcome,CHARGING at full bore that murderer was all he had.

The shooter " MIGHT" just have pooped himself, might have tried to run backwards, might have dropped the gun & or magazine.

I would have been forced to go for the " might haves".
 
I was able to watch the video on my computer and have some thoughts. He could have bolted when the assailant first appeared but his initial approach wasn't too threatening and it looks like he kept his weapon concealed until the last minute. I don't think I'd have bolted either based on the approach.

If that was me in the viceo I'd have bladed my body and put my hand on my gun at first sight of him walking directly towards me. I think I could have made the draw and returned fire but I think the chances are pretty close to 100 percent that I'd be getting shot too but looking at the video the victim was mobile until the last finishing shot which means he could have been shooting If he had a gun and was able to get it out.

Lateral movement would be difficult due to being boxed in by the car and pump. Pretty much had to run straight away.

I don't think charging the assailant has a realistic chance of success and unless one trains for that the chances of someone going against human nature by making the split second to charge into a pointed gun is unrealistic to expect. It's extremely contrary to normal human behavior.

If he did charge he's going to get shot for sure. I don't think someone is going to have much of a chance grappling with someone with a hole in their chest. If he was able to charge and then draw a gun or blade of his own then perhaps there's a slight chance.

Interesting to see what appears to be an extended magazine. Good to remember criminals can be well armed sometimes and can hit what they aim at.

Bottom line is I think this guy walked into a trap from which there was no escape. It looks like a hit to me, probably drug or gang related. If they didn't get him there they'd have gotten him somewhere else.
 
Wearing his pants down to his knees didn’t do his mobility any favors. We talk all the time about how fitness matters, but what good is speed if you can’t use it?
 
What about pulling a Gerald Curry and duck behind the gas pump or car? Life and death game of peek a boo until the attacker runs out of bullets.

youtu.be

2003 Van Nuys Courthouse Shooting

Police identified the gunman as William Striler and said he pulled a revolver from his coat and fired six shots at attorney Gerry Curry, 53. The victim ducke...
youtu.be youtu.be
 
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