What’s the correct move in this ambush?

[FL-NC]

There are 2 answers to responding to an attack: Escape and evade, or respond immediately with maximum available force. What option should be chosen is based on which one is most likely to result in a "win", which is dependent upon infinite factors. In this example, it looks like being properly trained and equipped while exercising situational awareness may have saved the day. Some people preach avoidance, but this isn't always an option. The victim may have been on a journey going through an unfamiliar area, and needed to refuel to continue, or he may have been a law abiding citizen in an area where he could not legally carry a firearm due to various laws, or too young to possess a firearm. Even locking yourself in your fortified home in full kit while heavily armed is no guarantee that nothing crazy will happen.

 

[Peakbagger46]

We humans are easily killed by other humans with cold blooded murderous intent.

Victim in the clip was at a complete disadvantage, even if he was a packing citizen with SF training the outcome would have been the same.

Due to my line of work, I’m vigilant about the possibility of ambush. At the same time, I’m aware not every threat can be mitigated.

Just a perspective, Kleenbore will be along shortly to pick apart this post from his risk mitigation background most likely lol.

 

[PavelSJ]

Warning, the video in this link is pretty harsh. The victim basically absorbs a full extended magazine in an ambush.

I’m posting it to ask what is the correct tactic should this happen to you (God forbid)? I know the standard answers of don’t make these kinds of enemies, situational awareness, don’t pump gas after dark,… My question is what should this guy have done? IMO he didn’t have the ability to exercise the best option, which I believe would have been to draw his own gun and fire while taking cover around the car. Clearly he either wasn’t armed or couldn’t get to it for some reason.

What’s his second best option? Charge the shooter and grab the gun to reduce the number of hits? Running away obviously didn’t work.

Video is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/s/IGATab40ur

Avoid going into danger zones and don't associate with troublesome individuals.

 

[shafter]

We humans are easily killed by other humans with cold blooded murderous intent.

Victim in the clip was at a complete disadvantage, even if he was a packing citizen with SF training the outcome would have been the same.

Due to my line of work, I’m vigilant about the possibility of ambush. At the same time, I’m aware not every threat can be mitigated.

Just a perspective, Kleenbore will be along shortly to pick apart this post from his risk mitigation background most likely lol.

Agreed. If someone really wants to kill you there is almost nothing you can do to stop it. The guy in the video was definitely targeted. If they didn't get him at the gas station they'd have gotten him at the grocery store.

 

[GRIZ22]

I agree with MikeInOr. Sometimes there is no "good" option. Either flee or attack directly. After 31 years working in the criminal justice system, I would speculate that this was some kind of "hit" or revenge killing. Its probably not an attempt to steal the car. I am very, very cautious on those rare occasions when I stop at a gas station in or near an urban area.

I agree. It was some kind of hit.

 

[ironworkerwill]

It's a hard watch. The only option for survival(while unarmed) is to rush the attacker, wich is counter intuitive.

 

[Kleanbore]

I didn't download the app either but I do remember one where a car pulls up to a guy pumping gas, they get out to jack his car and he just pulled the nozzle from the car and hosed them down with gasoline. They left without firing a shot.

Terrible idea.

 

[jmorris]

No doubt but it worked.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Well, in this case, I don’t think there’s too much the guy could’ve done

 

[JohnKSa]

Some thoughts.

Try to help solve your murder. If you can get a round in the attacker or get your hands on them, they might leave some blood on the ground or some DNA on you, or you might even make them seek medical attention.

If you can stay alive until they withdraw, or make them withdraw before you are dead, you might be able to summon medical attention in time to save your life. It's a given that they won't call 911 for you, so if it's going to happen, it's going to be up to you. Even if you aren't standing at the end of an encounter, and even if you are in really bad shape, if you can summon help, you still have a chance. On the other hand, if the attacker controls the scene after the attack, nobody is going to be getting you any help.

 

[Tilos]

As some have mentioned, the victim appears to have been the target of a hit.
I would think if he were engaged in some sketching profession, he would have been aware of a probable hit like this and would have been more cautious.
He left his car at the pumps, maybe went into pay, and returned to his car with a bag in his right hand (gun hand?).

We don't know if he scanned the parking lot from inside the store, looking for threats before leaving the store, something I would have done, have done, and I'm not a thug.
At the least, stopping outside the door of the store and looking around for threats.
Instead, he went directly to the space between his car and the pumps.
Then dropped the bag, opened his door, and turned to run away as the threat approached.
Why not step to the right, between the pumps.
You can't fix stupid.
jmo,
.

 

[westernrover]

Some times, like the United Health CEO, you are just F'd.

He might not have anticipated a seemingly random attack, but C-suite executives of major corporations have to know they have security risks. Even if it isn't a social-justice revenge attack, they're at-risk for kidnapping and ransom, sabotage from conflicting interests, and foreign terrorism. For the same reasons a more modest citizen like myself would be foolish to assume, "oh, that will never happen to me" and to go without the means to defend myself including a concealed firearm, an executive in a position like that is foolish to forgo a security detail. He should have never been walking on the street by himself. He should have at least one person with him and used a car. If he was going to walk down the street, it would call for two or more security personnel.

Security details for executives, like CCW for other individuals, aren't going to thwart every attack, but they do create a deterrence. Would-be assailants need to know that a potential victim could return fire, and if they shoot some pezzonovante in the back that there will be immediate retribution. It's good that the Butler, Pennsylvania and West Palm Beach, Florida assassination attempts were quickly thwarted, and that CEO Thompson's suspected murderer was apprehended soon afterward. It would have been better had they all seen no opportunity to make an attempt to begin with.

I can see the point of calling some particular attack hopeless to defend against after it has already begun, but there are ways to avoid being in those circumstances so that such attacks are impractical.

 

[westernrover]

I did not see the video on Reddit, but I can draw some conclusions from the other comments. Gas station attacks are usually car jackings. We've had two gas station attacks in our county in recent times and in both cases the attackers wanted the car, not to kill the victim. Because the victim in the Reddit video was apparently killed while fleeing, it seems more likely the intention was to kill him -- he was the target of a hit rather than an opportunistic property crime.

Property crimes are more common than hits, and males uninvolved in risky business are more likely to be victims of property crimes than crimes against their person. Unfortunately, females are more likely than males to be subjected to attacks where they are the target rather than their property. In any event, we need to be aware as soon as there is an indication that the threat is against us and not our property. Our person rather than our property could be targeted for revenge, mistaken identity, in sexual assault, for a gang initiation, for terrorism, or by a mass killer or serial killer. In any of these cases, the risk to us from the assailants isn't mitigated by giving them what they want -- by giving them the car keys, the wallet, the phone, the cash, or whatever. In these circumstances, we also cannot expect to avoid the threat by simply running away and abandoning the property. We have to rather expect the assailant will pursue us and continue to make an effort to kill us. If they're trying to shoot us, running into open ground would be a mistake. Having the ability to counter-attack is essential.

 

[WestKentucky]

I’m seeing more and more videos of brazen attacks and true ambushes. Sad state of affairs. One poster above pretty much nailed it though. Your instinctual response is going to hit and that’s just what you do. No time to think, no time to weigh options, just react and do what you do.

Best option is always avoid. You avoid by being aware of surroundings. If you can’t avoid you hope to win the fight, but in an unfair fight you just hope that your instincts get you through, right wrong or indifferent.

 

[JTHunter]

In a situation like this, and being somewhat "bull-headed", I would use that closeness to my advantage and lean forward and charge the shooter in an attempt to slam my head into his abdomen or groin. Changing my height like that might cause the shooter to pause for a second, giving me time to connect and knock him on his backside. He would be expecting me to run and probably be balanced forwards so he could chase me. By reversing and forcing him backwards, he's off balance and the gun might be held to high to connect on the first shot. If I did hit him in the gut/groin, I would also be using my left hand/arm to "sweep" the gun to the side or even to possibly grab it and immobilized it. I might still be killed but so might he in the melee.

 

[westernrover]

I think it's fair to assess that counterattacking into a close ambush shortens the time the adversary has to complete their attack.

I remember watching video of a gunfight between cops and a bus hijacker. In this case, the cops were the ambushers. The hijacker shot one cop in the leg. They attempted to flee, and another cop shot them in the back as they were fleeing (justified as they were still armed and presented an immediate danger to the public). As this person was fleeing in an open area, they were making it a little more difficult for the cop to make the shot at increasing distances, but they were giving the cop more and more time. Had the hijacker attacked into the cop, the cop would have had less and less time before they had to complete the ambush/stop of the hijacker's attack.

Attacking into the ambush, a strategy pointed out earlier in the thread, increases the urgency with which the ambushers must complete their ambush.

 

[Jeff White]

Attacking into the ambush, a strategy pointed out earlier in the thread, increases the urgency with which the ambushers must complete their ambush.

Yes and in most cases it puts them off balance because that's the last thing they are expecting. The ambusher's original plan is disrupted and he has fractions of a second at that distance to both react and come up with a new plan. It gives you a much better chance of curving the ambush than running or standing your ground and drawing.

 

[shafter]

There's so many reasons why he could have been shot like that and as far as I know that information isn't abailable yet. Could be messing with the wrong guys girl, disrespected someone, drugs or gang involvement, or flipped off the wrong person in traffic.

A great deal of violent crime happens over women. Be careful what you do and who you do it with.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

There's so many reasons why he could have been shot like that and as far as I know that information isn't abailable yet. Could be messing with the wrong guys girl, disrespected someone, drugs or gang involvement, or flipped off the wrong person in traffic.

A great deal of violent crime happens over women. Be careful what you do and who you do it with.

+1 to this. It may well have been that the victim was involved in something shady but it's pretty easy to get on the wrong side of someone that's evil enough to assassinate you. It could literally be anything from flirting with the wrong girl or having a family member or friend with enemies. You could even bear a resemblance to the wrong person. Who knows.