What About the Other Guy?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Kleanbore, Jul 13, 2021.

  1. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    The key to good FOF training is proper planning and execution. The scenarios have to be properly designed and ran. This isn’t the kind of thing that you can do by getting a bunch of friends together with airsoft guns or paintball. The Army has formal training in planning and conducting force on force training . I attended one of the first observer/controller courses back in the 1980s when MILES was being fielded. It’s a lot more complicated then finding a good engagement simulator.
     
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  2. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    Here's one that didn't go so well. How come our folks who always post a headline attaboy missed it? Where's the plus ones?

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/louisiana-dad-killed-teen-entered-underage-daughters-room

    As Jeff pointed out, running FOF - you need to know what you are doing. I wouldn't take an FOF experience unless the instructor could demonstrate they took training such as https://krtraining.com/KRTraining/Classes/AirsoftFOF.html

    Karl teaches FOF at Givens' TacCon. I would also ask if the instructor had gone through other dedicated instructor courses so they know how to teach.

    Here's Karl commenting on his FOF experience and how it works out for some people. https://blog.krtraining.com/polite-society-2014-southnarc-force-on-force-aar/

    Interesting screw ups.

    One comment on the last bullet point. At the old NTI, we had to arrive at our friend's house with a pizza. Upon coming to the front door, you see blood spatter. What to do?

    Several participants refused to enter. However, we were told that is the right decision but for the exercise you have to enter. The interesting thing is that most carried the pizza through the fight that ensued. NOT I though, I tossed it immediately and was praised in AAR for not being stupid.

    I note that I am not perfect and was righteously killed several times and had the bruises and scabs from some of the close in airsoft, sims interactions. Shot in the back three times by the nice blond lady who was a secret accomplish in the Jewelry store robbery, in one case.
     
  3. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

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    https://ccwsafe.com/blog/p414034755

    Here is a story where a bad guy was still functioning for quite a bit after the revolver ran dry. Now, if there were two burglars, our defender (who showed true grit) would have been out of luck.

    One thing as a side comment is that she called her husband first. I've seen that in other reports and tried to drill into my family NOT to call me first, if you think it is bad call 011 first. You read of someone calling hubby who races home, that's nice but I'd rather have the law racing to my house first.
     
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  4. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Gem - in the Louisiana link, the article makes no mention about WHO is the owner of the gun in this tragedy. If it was the father's, how did the teen perp get it away from him? If the teen brought it, it may have not been seen by the father until it was too late.
     
  5. Father Goose

    Father Goose Member

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    I've encountered one attacker but also up to three at once. It's OK, I carry a reload for a reason.....it's rude not to "bring enough for everyone." LOL

    I think once the shooting starts the others start to run off.
     
  6. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I operate under the assumption that I'll be facing more than one opponent if I'm ever in another spot of trouble. So far it has never happened in the years since I retired out from police work. Sure hope it stays that way - and I'm willing to do whatever is needed to avoid that kind of fun.... Put simply - the good guys don't always win. The best armed confrontation - is the one you avoid...
     
  7. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Sometimes the call is to get coaching, not expecting the husband to race home. Coaching can start immediately, police may get there too late to stop things. I remember a case from a few years ago, in a "duty to retreat" jurisdiction, the wife was home with the kids, BG broke in, not sure if she called husband before or after retreating with the kids into the attic or at what point she did call police, but when BG broke into the attic husband instructed her to shoot him, and kept saying "Shoot him again" until BG was no longer a threat. Wife and kids thankfully lived.
     
  8. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    It would be exceptionally imprudent for anyone facing violent criminal actors to rely upon anyone who is not actually present at the scene for "coaching".
     
  9. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Crime is rare up here, but the few times there were some robbery sprees it was always at least two perps.

    Plenty of video on ASD and crime stories seem to show that they go in packs now, especially car jackers.

    I would always assume there's probably a second these days
     
  10. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Here's something I learned to expect on the street when I was on patrol and looking for trouble... If I saw one guy in a vehicle by himself my "radar" was rarely activated unless there were other factors also present... If I saw two young guys in a vehicle - not specifically travelling somewhere on a road with other traffic... I immediately started looking them over, for additional signs that they were up to something (as a particular statute said.. "in a manner, place or time, not usual for ordinary citizens...). If I had three or more in a car cruising, the moment I spotted them it was time to begin considering whether to start a second car my way - or to call in plainclothes types for further action.

    Most times my "radar" wasn't worth much and after a bit of attention I looked elsewhere. Enough times, though, that instinct was right on the money and I found myself looking at young people intending harm.... Wish I could say that I knew many cops that deliberately went looking for trouble - but that's just not the case.... The more trouble you look for on the street - the more bad situations you're likely to find yourself in... Not movie, or TV type stuff - mostly low level stupid stuff by desperate folks not much worried about the consequences of a strong arm robbery (purse snatch) or burglary, or car theft... Be careful what you look for... you just might find it...
     
  11. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    It would certainly be preferable for the wife to herself be trained and practiced. But even nowadays many women are not. Just curious, would you say your wife is equally skilled in self-defense as you are?
     
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  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That was not my point.

    Speaking to a frightened person on the phone cannot compensate for thatt, and it can lead to major problems.

    No.
     
  13. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    That doesn't mean it can't be my point. I strongly advocate for women being able to defend themselves.
     
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  14. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Different subject.

    Ms Herman used the revolver with adequate skill.

    But she called her husband rather than 911. Not a good idea.

    And--had the man died, the husband's advice might well have proved very damaging to her.
     
  15. Father Goose

    Father Goose Member

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    As I reflect across nearly 30 years of being armed, I can confirm, most of the "serious" encounters I have had were with two or three assailants. None wanted to continue the game once they realized they were about to get shot. One even physically removed his rather outspoken accomplice. (He bear hugged his comrade from behind and dragged him across the street).

    For the solo would-be muggers command voice, pepper spray in hand (and being shaken), or me reaching to my 4 O'Clock position was enough. The one large "aggressive panhandler" might have been reacting to command voice or it could have been my hand "going for something." He couldn't back up fast enough and began to babble, his well-planned (and well practiced) script was immediately forgotten.

    *In that case I wasn't armed with anything as I was on my way into the courthouse......the one with the metal detector. Once there I told them about him, apparently he's a regular and when I left 15 minutes later he was gone. I assume the security on site ran him off.
     
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