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What am I doing wrong with my Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 shooting off the bench?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by MCMXI, Nov 24, 2008.

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  1. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    I shot the Marlin 1895 XLR and 1895 Guide Gun for the first time today. We were using a bench rest to sight in the XS ghost ring sights on both rifles at 50 yards. To the obvious amusement of my shooting partner, when I shot the Guide Gun, the front of the rifle "jumped" out of the bench rest and came to rest on the wooden bench (with me still holding the stock) :eek: . This happened three times in a row!! He suggested using a bungee chord to strap the rifle to the rest but I think he was joking since he was laughing a lot as he said it. Is there a recommended technique for shooting such a light rifle when using a bench rest? The recoil for the XLR was significantly less. We were only on the second lightest load for the Guide Gun (45.0 gr of N130) and easily shot the heaviest loads in the XLR (48.0 gr of N130) without nearly as much drama.

    Thanks.
    :)
     
  2. Keoni

    Keoni Member

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    Is the GG ported? Mine is and mostly recoils straight back when shooting off the bag. What kind of bench rest are you using?
     
  3. TIMC

    TIMC Member

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    Don't have my 1895 yet, supposed to be delivered today. I do have a light weight H&R Buffalo classic in 45/70 that pretty much does as you described when fired. Muzzle rise was really bad with it until I went with a lighter load, now she only jumps a little and shoots clover leaf groups at 100 yards. I don't know of any special shooting technique to keep it from jumping on the bench.
     
  4. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Hold onto the gun when firing it. That usually seem to help.
     
  5. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    Hold on to the fore-end. :)
     
  6. Olympus

    Olympus Member

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    Anticipating the recoil maybe?
     
  7. Asherdan

    Asherdan Member

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    Working hot loads with my unported 1895G I always have to lay the back of my hand across the front bag and hang on, otherwise the scope will give me a kiss.

    I usually work with it like this:

    30 cal ammo can with my range tools in it and a sock full of rice on top for a front rest. Couple of rice socks for rear bags. Back of hand supported by bag, grasp fore end just forward of receiver, don't grab on hard enough to start the trembles. Sit up tall and firmly set butt in the shoulder pocket, use aft rice socks to support. Fire away.

    It's not as dead on repeatable as locking the rifle in the rest but if you use a good target for a repeatable sight picture you can shoot good groups.

    Sitting up straight instead of hunching over let's you rock a little with the rifle instead of taking a punch locked in and having the rifle jump around more because of it. Unless I'm load testing I eliminate the back rice socks and work off the front rest only.

    I think the geometry of the 1895G with the straight grip (and the shorter length and lighter weight) is what results in greater recoil bounce compared to the other models.
     
  8. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Keoni, the barrel isn't ported. The new Guide Guns don't have ported barrels.

    Asherdan, thanks for the explanation of how you shoot off the bench. Intelligent, constructive posts like yours make this board what it is and I really appreciate it.

    I don't plan on shooting the Guide Gun off the bench on a regular basis, I was merely trying to sight in the ghost ring sights as well as testing different loads. Once I have the sights dialed in with the load of choice, I plan on shooting off-hand at 50 yards and 100 yards with the hope that I can hit a dinner plate at both distances since that's all that I ask of this Guide Gun.

    Olympus, I don't think I was anticipating the recoil but it's possible.

    :)
     
  9. Asherdan

    Asherdan Member

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    1858 I wasn't going to lecture it but now that you said:

    That's exactly the way I work with mine. I've got my pet loads for it, now all my shooting is from field positions because I hike and hunt with it. Offhand, sitting or kneeling I don't find recoil to be a problem with any load level in the 1895G.

    Besides controlling the rifle, I've found that shooting off your rested hand with your hand grip in the same position as when you're off the rest gets you the same force applied on the same part of the stock and keeps your POI the same on or off the bench. Shoot it like you're gonna use it and you wont be chasing sight settings.

    Good luck and good fun!
     
  10. moooose102

    moooose102 Member

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    yep, it is kind of normal. mine wanted to jump right out of my hands every time. i had a muzzle brake installed, and a limbsaver recoil pad put on. help tremendously with the recoil! also takes some of the kangaroo out of the muzzle as well. it is that short little barrel, it is much closer to the pivot point (your shoulder)!
     
  11. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    How come the new Guide Guns aren't ported?
    When did that start?
    Have they done away with the cross bar?
     
  12. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    X-Rap, what's the cross bar and yes, the Guide Guns don't come with muzzle breaks these days. Maybe not so good for the one pulling the trigger but a whole lot better for the folks standing next to him/her.

    Asherdan, thanks again ... I plan on having A LOT of fun once I've got the load figured out. Thanks for the tips on shooting off the bench too.

    moooose102, so it's not just me. I'm going to follow Asherdan's advice and maybe bring a bungee chord to the range next time just in case.

    :)
     
  13. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Not doing nuttin wrong. It jumps. Put it back on the rest and continue shooting. What's the problem?
     
  14. odsixer

    odsixer Member

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    I think it's a liablility issue.

    No, I just bought a guide and it still has the crossbar, I need a machinist to build me a dummy piece.
     
  15. Asherdan

    Asherdan Member

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    2001-2002 they quit porting them. I think user preference was the reason for the change. My buddies is ported, mine isn't. I don't see much benefit in muzzle jump from the ports but they will clear out range benches on either side of you.

    I slipped a tight o-ring in the groove in the 'fire' side of the safety bolt and don't think about it anymore.
     
  16. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    1858 the crossbar is the safety as you might have figured by now.
    Some guy in Wisconson makes dummys for around $14 including shipping.
     
  17. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    The EXACT same thing happened with my .50 caliber muzzleloader when I was sighting it in off a Hoppes rest. I even have my first DING in the front stock to prove it!

    Hold the front down with your non-trigger hand.
     
  18. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

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    perhaps

    An "educated" guess:

    You may be unknowingly resting the heel of the butstock on top of, or in contact with the bench surface. Consider something similar.

    My older brother was anxious about the recoil from a 12 gage shotgun, so he thought it would be better to place the butstock against a tree that was at his back. Of course, when he fired the stock rebounded back in his face, and broke his jaw!

    The next time at bench rest, slip your fingers beneath the {is it heel, or toe?} of the gun to determine if it is not fully residing in your shoulder "pocket." And not in contact with the bench.
     
  19. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    I know when it was happening with my new muzzleloader that the rear stock WAS NOT touching the bench, as the finish would have been missing as well as the rear sling swivel stud.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2008
  20. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    X-rap, I had figured out what you were talking about but now I have another question. For those of you that have removed the safety, how do you carry the rifle when hunting/hiking? By that I mean loaded/unloaded/half-cocked/hammer down etc. I'm new to the Marlin so I'm still at the stage of cocking the hammer, engaging the safety, cycling the lever to load a round in the chamber, depressing the trigger with my thumb on the hammer and lowering the hammer to the half-cocked position. Without the safety, would you carry the rifle empty, loaded with the hammer down or loaded with the hammer in the half-cocked position?

    Thanks.

    ... me too!! :( Oh well, I'm sure it's going to get more dings and scratches with use. Thanks for the tip.
     
  21. Asherdan

    Asherdan Member

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    Hunting: Load up when I get out of the truck. Half cock and empty chamber hiking in. Half cock and one in the chamber hunting. Unloading at the truck, cycle the lever and eject 'em on the tailgate. Maintain muzzle control throughout.
     
  22. ken22250

    ken22250 Member

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    if its not i wouldnt suggest porting it, hang on, hold it tight aginst your sholder, and try to hold it as if you are shooting off hand (put your hand on the grip when fireing) this works very well with my .300 Wby Mag.
    ken
     
  23. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Asherdan, thanks for the explanation ... this safety stuff is important so I appreciate your feedback. These Marlins aren't second nature to me yet but I'm getting there.

    ken, I'm definitely NOT going to get the barrel ported. Your shooting technique sounds the same or similar to Asherdan's and this is what I'll be trying next time. Thanks.

    :)
     
  24. flashhole

    flashhole Member

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    You might try a butterfly rest like this one. It works really well controlling muzzle jump when shooting the Guide Gun off the bench. The upper "bags" put pressure along the length of the forestock and it can be pinched pretty snuggly.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    1858, the design of these and similar rifles has been pretty much the same for 100 yrs then some liability lawyer came along and now we have an extra devise added to what was a beautifly simple gun. I will confess to missing a shot at a cow elk due to me using it because it was there. I had carried older levers for years before without the cross bar without problem and now it sits on red all the time.
     
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