What Am I Seeing?

[JDinFbg]

A month and a half ago I bought a Teslong borescope to look inside a 94 Winchester I was trying to get to shoot. Having gotten acceptable performance out of that rifle, I decided to use the borescope to peek inside my 1917 Enfield which I could never get to shoot better than 2-3" groups at 100 yards. My Enfield has the original (as far as I know) 5-groove, left-hand twist barrel that had been sporterized and shortened to 22" long before I bought the rifle. I knew the barrel was questionable at best, but I can't figure out what I'm seeing through the borescope. About 4" in from the muzzle there appears to start an annular ring of deposits, and the next several inches of barrel look more like alligator skin than etched pits in the barrel metal. About 16" in from the muzzle the barrel starts to appears somewhat cleaner, although far from pristine. The first picture is an end view from the borescope 4" in from the muzzle (with the side-view mirror removed), and the next picture is with the side-view mirror at the same point. The last picture shows a side view about 16" from the muzzle. The roughness looks more like raised deposit in the bore as opposed to pits in the barrel metal. Can anyone advise as to what I'm seeing through the borescope? Is this baked-on carbon deposits?

 

[Scooter22]

I,m thinking you have a ring in the bore. Run your fingers over the area and see if you feel a bulge but there may be none. The bullet jumps and scrapes off jacket material. Safe to shoot and far enough from the muzzel so doesn't seem to effect your accuracy. Give it a good scrube and look at the bore. A ring will look like a round shadow. Also pitting can eventually fill in and start to raise into lumps as the bullet scrapes over them. You may have that also. I,d get a good copper solvent like Sweets or similar and scrub the bore to get all that out of there so you can see whats what. You don,t have a safety issue and as long as the accuracy is good just shoot it.

 

[gotboostvr]

I'd give it one heckuva scrub and see what the bare metal looks like. Let a good copper solvent have a soak and see what all you can get out before taking another look at it.

 

[ms6852]

I,m thinking you have a ring in the bore. Run your fingers over the area and see if you feel a bulge but there may be none. The bullet jumps and scrapes off jacket material. Safe to shoot and far enough from the muzzel so doesn't seem to effect your accuracy. Give it a good scrube and look at the bore. A ring will look like a round shadow. Also pitting can eventually fill in and start to raise into lumps as the bullet scrapes over them. You may have that also. I,d get a good copper solvent like Sweets or similar and scrub the bore to get all that out of there so you can see whats what. You don,t have a safety issue and as long as the accuracy is good just shoot it.

^^^^ What he said.

 

[brasscollector]

You might want to sneak up on that with the cleaning rod real slowly so as not to scare it. Looks like it has been a looooong time since that thing has seen any hoppes #9...

 

[JDinFbg]

You might want to sneak up on that with the cleaning rod real slowly so as not to scare it. Looks like it has been a looooong time since that thing has seen any hoppes #9...

Actually not, I have cleaned it thoroughly multiple times during all my testing and load development using Hoppe's #9, bronze bore brushes, and patches. I recently got some Bore Tech Eliminator and CU+2 that I have yet to use in this barrel, so plan to give that a try. I've just never seen fouling like this.

 

[JDinFbg]

I,m thinking you have a ring in the bore. Run your fingers over the area and see if you feel a bulge but there may be none. The bullet jumps and scrapes off jacket material.

There is no bulge on the outside of the barrel at this point. I put a tape marker on my cleaning rod so I'd know when it reached the suspicious spot in the barrel and ran several tight-fitting cleaning patches wetted with Kroil down the barrel. If there was an internal ring as you suspected, I would have expected to feel the cleaning rod 'jump' a little when I got to that point. I actually felt a slight increase in resistance at this point.

 

[Scooter22]

There is no bulge on the outside of the barrel at this point. I put a tape marker on my cleaning rod so I'd know when it reached the suspicious spot in the barrel and ran several tight-fitting cleaning patches wetted with Kroil down the barrel.
If there was an internal ring as you suspected, I would have expected to feel the cleaning rod 'jump' a little when I got to that point. I actually felt a slight increase in resistance at this point.

I agree but it looks like it's been shot forever without a good scrub. The jacket fouling can build up into the ring. Thats why you may actually feel a restriction. That section looks like a copper mine.

 

[I6turbo]

That's ugly. I hope you'll please update this thread as you continue to work on the barrel. It would be interesting to see what you eventually figure out and how well you are able to restore the bore back towards decent.

Do you by chance have any of the Frontier Big 45 Metal Cleaner? That stuff is advertised for tasks like yours. https://www.big45metalcleaner.com/
I've used it for exterior rust on an old, neglected blued gun and it works well. It'd be interesting to see if it'd rip that stuff out. I think it's only about $6 delivered.

 

[LoonWulf]

Looks like rust pitting....or someone used an electronic bore cleaner on it......

 

[Scooter22]

That's ugly. I hope you'll please update this thread as you continue to work on the barrel. It would be interesting to see what you eventually figure out and how well you are able to restore the bore back towards decent.

Do you by chance have any of the Frontier Big 45 Metal Cleaner? That stuff is advertised for tasks like yours. https://www.big45metalcleaner.com/
I've used it for exterior rust on an old, neglected blued gun and it works well. It'd be interesting to see if it'd rip that stuff out. I think it's only about $6 delivered.

Absolutely great product and suggestion! Several strands wrapped around a bore brush would help remove the lumps.Every gun owner should have one or more. They are magic. Get it from the manufacturer. You know it,s not a copy and it,s the best price.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Pitting over several long periods of time. Nothing much to correct it.

 

[dh1633pm]

I used the same thing, frontier big 45 metal cleaner on my sewer pipe K98. Did the trick.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I would get some J & B bore paste and go to work with a new brush.

 

[JDinFbg]

That's ugly. I hope you'll please update this thread as you continue to work on the barrel. It would be interesting to see what you eventually figure out and how well you are able to restore the bore back towards decent.

Do you by chance have any of the Frontier Big 45 Metal Cleaner? That stuff is advertised for tasks like yours. https://www.big45metalcleaner.com/
I've used it for exterior rust on an old, neglected blued gun and it works well. It'd be interesting to see if it'd rip that stuff out. I think it's only about $6 delivered.

Yes, I will update this thread when I get to the 'other end' on the clean-up, but it may be several weeks. Thanks for the tip on the Frontier Big 45 Metal Cleaner. I had never heard of that stuff, but it looks like it would be a really good cleaning tool to have on hand. My plan is to soak the barrel (i.e., fill it with Hoppe's #9) and let sit for for several days, then try a Hoppe's Tornado bore brush since I already have one of those. If that doesn't do the trick I'll try the Frontier Big 45 Metal Cleaner.

 

[brasscollector]

Might want to see if you can find some sort of foaming bore cleaner for an overnight soak. I used some Hoppe's Elite foaming bore cleaner, stuff really removes everything down to the bare metal.

 

[JDinFbg]

I'm posting this update on my cleaning process much sooner than expected. I made a jig that allowed me to firmly attach my rifle to my workbench and hold it in a vertical position. I attached a short section of 5/8" ID vinyl tubing to the muzzle of the barrel and plugged the other end with a 5/8" bolt, securing both points with hose clamps. The tubing would not only collect any fouling that I managed to dislodge, but it would allow me to pass a bore brush all the way through the barrel and not require reversing the brush direction with it in the bore. I then poured the bore full of Hoppe's #9 with the intent of letting it soak for a week, but 2 days into the soaking I noted that the Hoppe's was attacking the vinyl tubing, leaking around the connection points, and "sweating" through the vinyl tubing. The Hoppe's that was leaking out was totally green so it was obviously working on some copper. So much for that idea. However, with the tubing in place on the end of the barrel I went ahead and made about 100 strokes with a bronze bore brush to help dislodge any fouling. There was a fair amount of fouling that settled in the tube. After swabbing the barrel with clean patches I decided to look inside with my borescope. Although a lot of fouling remains in the barrel, the Hoppe's did diminish the ring of deposits I had discovered with my borescope 4" in from the muzzle. I have not started pass #2 with a new piece of vinyl tubing attached, but now using Bore Tech Eliminator as the soaking agent. Hopefully the Eliminator will not attack the vinyl tubing. Unless I start having leaks, I plan to let the Eliminator soak for 4-5 days then scrub and check the results with my borescope.

 

[Demi-human]

I am extremely interested in what your results will be on paper! That was more copper than I’ve shot through a pistol!

The before and after pics with the Teslong are great. Is the bore thoroughly dry before you run the bore cam in? Maybe it’s the bore texture I’m seeing.

I hope it works wonders on the rifle and eagerly await the next update.

 

[JDinFbg]

I am extremely interested in what your results will be on paper! That was more copper than I’ve shot through a pistol!
The before and after pics with the Teslong are great. Is the bore thoroughly dry before you run the bore cam in? Maybe it’s the bore texture I’m seeing.
I hope it works wonders on the rifle and eagerly await the next update.

I'll be interested in what I get on paper, too. Yes, the bore was totally dry before running the borescope in this second time. After dry patching the bore, I had flushed out the receiver and bore with spray brake cleaner to remove any remnants of Hoppe's and then run through some more dry patches. I'm now into my second soak session, this time with Bore Tech Eliminator. Eliminator comes out of the bottle as a totally clear liquid, and I noted that after only 3 hours of soaking the color of the Eliminator in the clear vinyl tube connected to the end of the barrel had turned green. It appears that the longer it sits, the greener it gets. So, it is obviously finding a lot of copper to work on.

 

[JDinFbg]

Here's some photos of what I'm seeing through the vinyl tube on the end of my barrel with Bore Tech Eliminator soaking in the bore. One is the result after a 3 hr. soak time, and the other after 24 hr. soak time. The Eliminator, which started out perfectly clear, is getting darker green as time progresses.

 

[brasscollector]

Looks like you're opening a copper mine there...
BTW I love that idea w/ the clear tube

 

[Nature Boy]

Keep going!

 

[mokin]

That's very interesting. Thanks for the updates!

 

[Project355]

On the Enfield, old cupro-nickel ammo leaves a very tough and rough fouling.

 

[JDinFbg]

I think I'm making progress on getting the very old, heavy fouling out of my 1917 Enfield. After a little over 2 day's soaking with Bore Tech Eliminator, I ran a new bronze brush through the bore making about 100 strokes in and out. I then removed the tube off the end of the barrel, dry patched it, flushed it out with spray brake cleaner, then dry patched again. When I took the tube off the end of the barrel, I could see that the end of the steel bolt I used to plug the other end of the tube was copper plated. I've attached a picture of that and two new views inside using my borescope, 4" and 16" in from the muzzle, the same places I took the original pictures in this post. Essentially all the fouling at the 16" point is gone, leaving only pits in the barrel steel. At the 4" point, there are still some 'alligator-skin' looking deposits and some copper. I've now started a second extended soak with Bore Tech CU+2. I had contacted Bore Tech and they suggested that the CU+2 would work faster at getting rid of the copper. I may eventually get this sucker clean.