What caliber carbine: 9mm VS .40s&w VS 10mm VS .45acp

What handgun caliber carbine for self defense?

  • 9mm ?

    Votes: 89 30.5%
  • .40S&W ?

    Votes: 28 9.6%
  • 10mm ?

    Votes: 110 37.7%
  • .45ACP ?

    Votes: 65 22.3%

  • Total voters
    292
Status
Not open for further replies.
In short, if your powder is spent (e.g., no more pressure increase) and your bullet has not yet exited the barrel, the remaining major force affecting your bullet is friction. I agree with your basic "size of pressure chamber" analogy, but I think it's also plain to see that that was what I was getting at too. As a "fellow rifle reloader" I am fairly certain that you can agree that to achieve the most efficent match of bullet weight, composition, case capacity (to account for manuf. differences), powder charge & type, you do need to consider the action type (closed system or autoloader - esp. if gas-driven) and barrel length (and sometimes barrel characteristics such as rifling type / barrel material). Of course most of this will just provide theoretical maximums, but sometimes - esp when moving from short pistol-length barrels to longer (10-16+ inch) barrels, a basic application of physics helps.

Wow what's your source for that? You seem to be assuming that the gasses stop expanding when the powder stops burning. That is of course wrong. Modern pressure testing equipment (piezo electric) shows that the pressure peaks when the bullet is just a couple of inches down the barrel of a rifle and that it drops after that.

If your powder is still burning when the bullet is at the end of the barrel then you're using too slow of a powder and you aren't getting the most out of it. Since the gasses will continue to expand after the powder is done burning.
 
i wouldnt have guessed the 10mm would be fairing so well.

anyway, i said 9mm cuz its cheap and you've got a lot of rounds there to make up for any lack of stopping power you may be worried about. plus its cheap so you can shoot tons more.
 
I went with 10mm. As a reloader, 10mm wouldn't cost much more and would provide superior firepower IMO.

I would have to agree that the flame seen at the barrel is typically hot gas, not unburned powder. However, I've also left the range with my arms speckled by unburned powder many times (usually with unique or clays). But that was after firing "light" IDPA loads which may not have allowed complete burn due to lower pressure.
 
as I understand it...

The reason that pressure drops after a few inches (this is my understanding of the process mind you) is because the "chamber" created by the bullet seal, the barrel, and the case is getting larger (once the powder is burned, the chemical reaction that produces the pressure is over - the peak occurs at about the moment this occurs). Pressure drops after this because the gasses are confined in an increasingly larger "container" as the bullet travels down the barrel (ever-increasing volume of the "container" + the same volume of gas = lower pressure). Of course a certain length of barrel is needed to gain the optimum pressure and to stabilize the bullet.

Of course what I have just written is purposefully over simplified, but this seems to be consistent with what I have read / reasoned on the subject. In short, choosing a powder with the right burn rate should theoretically allow you to gain the highest safe pressure given the barrel length chosen and other factors that I mentioned before. In a way, you can notice some 'evidence" for this when you take mild .38 spec. loads and fire them from successively longer barrels. The efficiency of the round is dependent on certain parameters. For example, my mild paper-punching handloads show significant velocity gains when I move them from a 2" to a 4" or 6" barrel. The rate of increase is about the same, but not only are both fired from revolvers (vented "containers) but the same rate of "gain per inch" is nowhere to be had from my Marlin carbine.

My mild .38 loads that I just described are optimized for a 4" revolver. I try to get a complete burn in that amount of barrel. When I fire them in shorter barrels, I get lower velocity (of course) and I can find unburnt powder in the barrel. This is especially true for my 10mm loads optimized for my 6.5" S&W 610 when fired from my Glock 29 (complete burn in 610, unburnt powder remaining in G29). Anyway, of course even these same .38 loads certainly get a velocity boost when fired from my carbine, but this seems to be due to the fact that the extra time they get the "push" from these gases more than compensates for the extra friction...but (here's the rub), the friction does take its toll....(continued below): ;)

Again, I reason that the "gain per inch" in velocity from the carbine is much lower that what one sees when comparing 2, 4, and 6 inch revolvers (again, using my mild loads) since the amount of gas produced in the first 4" or so is from the complete burn cycle and the remaining barrel serves only to provide more time for this every-weakening, but still present "push" to accellerate the bullet & also "some" friction/drag (working against the accelleration, but not overcoming it). IF HOWEVER I were to instead change my .38 spec recipe (which I have done on more than a few occasions) to a slower powder for instance, this would allow the burn to continue though say the first 6-10 or more inches of barrel. More pressure would be produced (bigger push down the length of the barrel with less "extra" barrel at the end) and higher velocity gains would result....but, these new loads would likely not work as nicely in say my 4" revolver because doing so would result in lots of flash/flame out the end of the barrel and more (unburnt) powder speckling on my close-range targets.

That all said, I am more than happy to hear other theories - it's just that this is how I understand it to work. Did I explain myself more clearly this time?

***edited to catch *some* (though probably not all) typos. :)
 
Last edited:
Well....

.45 would be great and 7.62X25 Tokarev would be very good indeed. In view of my financial situation, however, I am just going to have to stick with 9mm.
 
RE: 7.62X25 Tokarev...

Yep, I have been kicking around the idea on getting a TC Contender carbine barrel made in that caliber. I shoot pins oce in a while with my little CZ52 and it's fine (thin) sights and flat trajectory really help it shine. A fun tme can be had dropping pins as fast as the guys using high dollar pistols in the next lane over when you're holding a $80 mil-surp. :cool:
 
If I could only have one gun from the list, I'd have to go for maximum oomph, 10mm.

9mm is a reasonable choice out of a carbine, and the ammo is dirt cheap for practice and plinkin'.

Personally, I _have_ a .45acp carbine, for ammo compatibility, which mostly lives in my trunk. (It's the gun I have that's legal in all the various jurisdictions I operate in)

At the end of the day, though, if I have my druthers, and I'm gonna be lugging a long gun around, I'm going with an _actual_ rifle, in either .308 or 5.56
 
I voted 45, just cause I like big holes. And for the record I'm one of those guys who shoot a rifle caliber in a handgun, and I load with alot of "pistol" powders.
 
I voted .45 because I have one - the marlin camp carbine that uses 1911 mag's - and its a nice handling carbine. I wish it didn't have the plastic mag well tho.

I held the Ruger PC4 in .40 and it didn't feel as good in my hands - heavier and just different than the Marlin.

I have heard that the .45 acp doesn't get anything extra from the longer barrel - would it help if one used .45 acp +P?

Everyone loved them in the old Thompson Machine Guns? Why aren't they as good in a Marlin camp carbine?

Also, if you reload .45acp couldn't you make a carbine load that would be better ina 16" barrel?
 
In reading on the keltec sub2k carbine @ K.T.O.G. it seems the 16" barrel adds quite a bit to the velocity of a pistol round. The energy increases are close to 50% see http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=102;action=display;num=1161039214
. There are other chono's of .40 cal showing quite and increase in MV in different threads. The longer barrel makes for quieter shots also. There is a video (utube) of a guy shooting the Keltec 9mm carbine knocking down steel targets that a .45 pistol wont, demonstrating the increased energy coming from the carbine. The biggest advantage is in having a similar round to your pistol. The carbine is much more accurate and stopping power is more than sufficient out to 150 yards. For $3 bills a Keltec sub2k in 9mm would be my vote. The
 
If there's no problem with ammo supply (like being in a foreign country, or somethin') then the 10mm Auto is the only way to go.

oly10mm_final-upgrade.jpg


coharie-arms_10plus-5.jpg
 
Last edited:
I voted 9mm for relatively cheap, readily available ammo. Should allow more practice so that you can put the shots where you want them, which is the #1 goal.
 
Never seen the use in those pistol caliber carbines in an AR or bigger platform.
 
For SD, I gotta go with the 10mm (just a silly millimeter longer!).
Course, if you include availability and cost, then probably .45, then 9mm--.45 cause that is the caliber of every pistol I own and then 9mm cause everyone says it is so cheap.
 
If your only goal is SD just stick to .223 . The pistol cal AR carbines as far as I know are all blow back and the hefty bolt weights required to make them function actually recoil more than the .223 gas operated guns . It's not like the recoil is painful or anything but from the standpoint of sight bounce and fast follow up shots the 223 wins hands down.
In a SD situation the .223 will take out a threat faster and there is some argument that the high speed .223 bullet will actually be safer in a urban situation as it tends to fragment upon strikeing objects vs the heavier pistol rounds punching through several walls and strikeing your next door neighbor.
For me the pistol cal carbine is something to shoot at indoor ranges that don't allow rifle rounds and the 9mm with it's cheep ammo fills my needs to a tee.
For slightly different uses I enjoy my marlin 44mag lever gun and somewhwre down the line I will need a lever gun in 38/357
 
10mm why go smaller, and who cares about a few dollars more per box. You don't have to have a gun, you WANT one. And for Fun and personal protection why not have the hottest performer of the bunch. Firearms for protection are not the place to start bargain shopping.
 
I'm not a carbine guy, but...

If forced to choose from the list, I'd go with the .40 S&W. It's a higher pressure round and would benefit the most from the longer barrel to deliver that pressure (pressure plus barrel {usually} = velocity) downrange.

Personally, I'd go looking for a rifle cartridge in the smallest package rather than a pistol cartridge in the largest package.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top