What caliber has killed the most people?

[JWF III]

I'd say bump the 9mm, .223, .308, and .45acp down the OP's list and slide .30-06 above them and it would be close. You got to remember the .308 wasn't the main caliber in any truly large war, while the -06 was our main caliber for 50+ years. Which also include both big wars, many dead Japs. and Germans form the -06. Not to forget Koreans. Also got to put the .223 ahead of the .308 because of Vietnam, Grenada, Gulf Wars 1&2, and Afganastan. As far as 9mm and .45acp, with the exception of smg's, very little front line kills. So maybe even bump the 9 down to in between .223 & .308.

 

[PercyShelley]

What a morbidly fascinating subject!

8mm Mauser. Used by the Germans in two WWs to extremely favorably kill ratios. Also used by Yugoslavia, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Britain, Israel, and various others.

7.62x54R. Seen it's share of world wars, bushfires, revolutions and dissident executions. Still going strong!

.303 British. Back in the day the British were cold blooded killers who traveled the world to stomp on the face of freedom.

(Oddly enough they were more fun that way.)

7.62x39. Been used in an enormous number of small wars.

7.62x51 NATO. Ditto

7.65mm Argentine/Belgian Mauser. It was popular at one time and used in a number of wars. Some quite nasty.

7.62x38R. A lot of Russians and Ukrainians were quietly disposed of with nagant revolvers I imagine.

9x19mm. Probably a fairly large number of people killed with this.

7.62x25. Lots and lots of PPS and PPsh out there, and they weren't just used in WWII.



Obviously, the ideal caliber for combat is around .30 inch.

 

[RNB65]

7.62x54R gets my vote.

 

[everallm]

Biggest killer....Mk1 machete...remember that the next time you get the "Eeeeeeevil guns" diatribe.

Between April - July 1994 machetes were the weapon of choice for the estimated 800,000 deaths of the Rwandan genocide.

 

[George C Morrison]

My guess is the 8mm Mauser.I agree with Mr Shelley.
The Germans used it in both World Wars,the Turks with their Armenian genocide in 1915-1916.And the losing Germans outkilled the Russians by a large ratio.
If it's not #1 it is certainly near the top.
As was said by BrianB, Stalin used starvation to kill a great mass of farmers and prisoners.The Russians were also quite fond of using the pistol for execution after thousands of show trials during the Stalin purges of the '30's and 40's.

 

[Cannonball888]

Biggest killer....Mk1 machete
Between April - July 1994 machetes were the weapon of choice for the estimated 800,000 deaths

That's a drop in the bucket compared to what the 7.62 x 54R has done. Problem is most people think of only recent world history where the deaths from conflicts is relatively low.The 7.62 x 54R was invented in the 19th century, used in Russian imperial wars, Bolshevik revolution, Russian civil war, WWI, WWII, etc. I would estimate 50 million or more.

Mosin Nagant
1910 Maxim machine gun
Degtareyev
SVT 40

 

[1911Tuner]

Worldwide...military cailbers...the 7.62 X 39 hands down. Non-military cailber...very likely the lowly .22 rimfire. Almost everybody has a .22 somewhere. Even some fairly rabid antis that I know have .22 rifles.

 

[SN13]

Sorry, X39 is far from No. 1..... Do you watch the 3rd worlders shoot? I mean come on, someone please post the pictures from Africa of the guys shooting AK's from the "Hold above your head" position!

 

[Owen Sparks]

Stalin and Chairman Mao had something like 60 million people murdered. (10 times as many as Hitler) Many of them were simply shot in the back of the head with a pistol. Care to speculate on what caliber?

 

[Cosmoline]

I don't think there's any contest on this. For all the whooplah about the AK-47, the 8x57JS was the primary round for everything from Maxims to Mausers, MG-42's to Stukas. On BOTH fronts through BOTH world wars. Total killed in those wars mounted over 100 million, and a fair chunk were killed by Central/Axis troops using small arms firing the 8x57JS. The 7.62x54R, 30'06, .303, and other assorted cartridges of the same wars also did their share of combat but obviously only on certain fronts, not both fronts.

In contrast, the post-war conflicts involving the AK-47 from Vietnam on down have been much lower intensity and have involved far fewer deaths from the 7.62x39 round. Still a lot, but not close to the Mauser's round.

I would say:

1--8x57JS
2--7.62x54R (from Imperial Russian conflicts to Afghanistan)
3--6.5x50 Arisaka (the Chinese invasion was unspeakable slaughter using this round)
4--7.62x39 (most post-1965 conflicts)
5--.223/5.56 NATO (ditto, and we've dished out better than we've taken with it)
6--.303 British (colonial conflicts and both WW's)
7--.30'06 (key service during part of WWI and part of WWII, but typically on offensive only)
8--.308/7.62 NATO (multiple early cold war conflicts plus third world use)
9--.22 LR (extensive criminal and low-intensity conflict use since mid-19th century. VERY old)
10--9x19 (ubiquitous since WWII with a history back to WWI, used in pistols and SMG's)

 

[1911Tuner]

Do you watch the 3rd worlders shoot?

Yep..and it's not just 3rd Worlders. The smallarms round count to casualty ratio for the US in Vietnam was something over 50,000 rounds.

Given the sheer number of AK and SKS rifles produced and distributed since 1947...and prodigious amount of the ammunition to feed them...the short Russian .30 probably still takes it by laws of averages and probabilities.

 

[Cannonball888]

Total killed in those wars mounted over 100 million, and a fair chunk were killed by Central/Axis troops using small arms firing the 8x57JS

What would you call a fair chunk? 80% of people in both world wars were killed by artillery and by bombing. That would leave only 20 million by your figure to all small arms fire and therefore even less to the Mauser round. Mauser doesn't come close to being number one.

 

[Cosmoline]

80% of people in both world wars were killed by artillery and by bombing.

Where are you getting that information from? The Maxims and Mausers mowed down millions in WWI. The artillery was not terribly effective because they couldn't get the timing right and everyone was dug in. The French or English artillery would unleash hell, and the Germans would scurry down in their holes. Then it would stop and out would come all the pointy headed fellows, deaf but still fighting. That is in fact why offensive after offensive ground to a halt under the fury of the 8x57JS. In WWII artillery and bombing killed mostly civilians. The troops were well protected and by that time the officers had learned how to scatter their troops and keep moving to avoid high artillery losses. Not to say it wasn't important, but any notion that the world wars were won with artillery is absolute nonsense. The top brass HOPED they would be won with artillery, and those hopes were dashed over and over again.

If you read much about the actual experiences of the troops on the ground, they were routinely told that they'd just be "mopping up after artillery." But from Normandy to Iwo Jima all those amazingly impressive barrages did was make the ground impossible to travel over. The enemy was unscathed by it, and ready to fight with rifles and bayonets. Look at this amazing display in the runup to Okinawa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JsZ4jD1yCs

Surely nothing could survive that! But of course almost all of them did, at least the fighting ones. Tell a veteran of that battle that artillery did 80% of the killing.

Or these Katyuska rockets, fired at the start of the final assault on Berlin. Very impressive, but still taking the city cost over a million Red Army Men their lives. Lives taken by an enemy who by that time had almost no working tanks or artillery!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0nIqZgnp60&feature=related

 

[Cannonball888]

Cos, you're totally disregarding civilian deaths.

 

[Husker1911]

My guess is 9mm and I am sticking to it.

I think 9mm is way up there. Sadly, most victims were Jews or Polish officers, on their knees............

 

[Moonclip]

Older Cartridges of the World books state that .44-40 has caused many civilian deaths. .22lr usually or did/does cause the most USA gunshot fatalities I've heard most years.

As for military I've heard 9x19 due to it's widespread use but 7.62x39 must be high up there.

I truly think the champ is 8x57mauser though. Think of the trench warfare in WWI. I think in one day in one of the battles the British army lost 8% of it's strength mainly from Maxim machine guns.

 

[Golden Hound]

8mm Mauser. Used by the Germans in two WWs to extremely favorably kill ratios. Also used by Yugoslavia, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Britain, Israel, and various others.

I can't be the only one seeing the irony in this.

 

[Husker1911]

I can't be the only one seeing the irony in this.

The Israelis scrupulously removed Nazi markings, but certainly realized the value of the German Mausers they received. Funny how the Israelis always seemed to value the quality of the firearms in their hands.

 

[esmith]

Bullets don't kill people. People kill people.

No you're wrong. Pieces of metal that don't do anything and just sit in your holster or in your safe start floating in mid-air and go up to someone and kill them. That's how this world works. Liberals and like-minded said it, it must be true.

 

[thebear101]

45 cal gattling gun and 1911 45 acp

30 cal M1 m1- garand AR_10, alot more 30s


22. 223, My answere is the 30 cal
45/70 gatling gun 45acp

 

[esmith]

80% of people in both world wars were killed by artillery and by bombing.

Im calling BS. The estimated total death toll of WWII alone, including civilians, is around 70-80 million people. So you are telling me that 56-64 million people were killed by bombings and artillery shellings? Nevermind widespread famine, disease, and the millions of infantry of both axis and allies.

 

[Husker1911]

Quote:
80% of people in both world wars were killed by artillery and by bombing.

Im calling BS. The estimated total death toll of WWII alone, including civilians, is around 70-80 million people. So you are telling me that 56-64 million people were killed by bombings and artillery shellings? Nevermind widespread famine, disease, and the millions of infantry of both axis and allies.

Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.................

 

[esmith]

Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki.................

Death toll estimations:

Nagasaki: 75,000-80,000
Hiroshima: 90,000-200,000
Tokyo city firebombing: Around 130,000
Dresden bombing: Around 30,000

At a maximum you have a little less than half a million, you'd better keep listing some bombings here. Only got about 63.5 million to go.

 

[Cosmoline]

Cos, you're totally disregarding civilian deaths.

Certainly a lot of civilians got killed in raids, but most people survived. It wasn't until the very end of WWII when technology got powerful enough to create firestorms and atomic detonations that the existing bomb raid shelters were rendered useless.

The bottom line is, that __% figure is one I've seen pop up for years. Sometimes it's 60% Sometimes 90%, but in no event can anyone cite the authority for it. I believe it to be completely bogus. It reminds me of the nonsense about how humans "only use 2% of their brains."

 

[IndianaBoy]

Edged weapons. Usually a rock, knapped to sharpness, fixed to the end of a spear or arrow.


People have been killing people for a lot more than 150 years. I doubt even the prolific killing of the 20th century has outstripped hundreds of thousands of years of worldwide tribal warfare.