What causes stove pipes? Specifically - LCP

[milemaker13]

Still getting stove pipes with my new LCP. Round count is about 250 at this point.
So, what actually causes cases to 'stove pipe' apon extraction? Some stove up while others stay straight but get caught.
I assume the slide isn't traveling all the way back due to tight springs (or possibly weak loads but today I shot a box of Hornady Critical Defense and, same as other ammo, had several stove pipes)
What is recommended here w/ the LCP? More break in rounds? Polish internals? Hand rack 1.5 million times?

 

[jonb32248]

Your going to hear limp wristing. But maybe something else.I had that in two of my guns (xde 9m and a g19) right in the middle of a church security class shoot. Shot all morning with my xde and then a case got stuck in the chamber then stove pipe twice in between shots, then went to my Glock, same thing as far as the stove pipe. Used the instructors gun the rest of the day, a xds. Low confidence in my guns. Hasn't happened since though.

 

[tarosean]

What is recommended here w/ the LCP? More break in rounds? Polish internals? Hand rack 1.5 million times?

return it for another and spin that mass production wheel again...

As for Stovepipes.. faulty/dirty extractors, dirty chamber, your grip, mag springs, etc. etc. etc. reasons are quite a few.

 

[JTQ]

WilsonCombatRep on another forum estimated 50% of their returns for service were fixed by properly lubing the pistol.

 

[jonb32248]

return it for another and spin that mass production wheel again...

As for Stovepipes.. faulty/dirty extractors, dirty chamber, your grip, mag springs, etc. etc. etc. reasons are quite a few.

Dirty chamber and grip huh? Maybe that was what caused mine. I spent two days cleaning both barrels and both had blue, green and black carbon come out. I assume the blue is lead and green is copper. Took a ton of patches. What do you think? Maybe?
The grip comment is another possibility, very hot that day and was sweating like crazy and exhausted. Thanks great insight.

 

[PWC]

. I spent two days cleaning both barrels and both had blue, green and black carbon come out. I assume the blue is lead and green is copper. Took a ton of patches.

Go to grocery store / hardware store and get a COPPER chore boy scrubber. Unwind 2-3 threads and wrap around a bore brush. Several passes thru the bore, wet or dry will do the job, then patch out.

 

[The Evangelist Cowboy]

Is it a newer LCP? My last LCP needed the entire upper slide assembly repl aced by Ruger. It was born in Jan 2018. Just a little thought several others had the same issue.

 

[SteadyD]

I could manually induce a stove pipe failure in both of my cw380s by intentionally limp wristing them. I have a LCP II that I can’t force to fail by limp wristing. So it would seem that limp wristing can induce that particular failure, but it depends on the gun.

 

[Slamfire]

The LCP is a locked breech pistol, I think most 380's are blowbacks. I totally agree with JTQ admonishment to lube your pistol. Never run a semi auto dry.

I am going to offer a possible failure mode that would lead to a stove pipe: lack of extractor tension. I have seen this in rimfires. Shooters think the purpose of an extractor is to pull the case out of the chamber, well not really. An extractor will do that, and if it pulls enough cases out of the chamber, it will break. The primary purpose (talking auto mechanisms) of an extractor is to hold the case against the side of the breech face. Look at your extractor and a good extractor pushes the case against the opposite side of the breech face, fixing in place, so the ejector mechanism can give the case a hard kick. Auto mechanisms use the residual blowback effect to pop the case out of the chamber. The best unlock scenario is a frictionless case, popping out of the chamber (at less than 650 psia) during unlock, the extractor holding the case against the breech face. At some distance the case is clear of the chamber and the ejector kicks that case well clear of the loading port.

Now, if the exactor is worn, or case rim diameters smaller than normal (whatever normal the designers built the mechanism to use), cases will fall off the breech face and rebound in unpredictable ways just above the feed ramp. A stove pipe will be a common failure mode with a weak extractor.

I don't have any good pictures of my K31 Swiss bolt action rifle, but I had cases fall off the breech face. Back in the day, Norma cases were the only 7.5 Swiss rounds around and they were hideously expensive. But, you could fireform 284 Winchester brass. Unfortunately the 284 cases were of a lesser rim diameter than the 7.5 Swiss service rounds, and while cartridges would extract, when the case totally cleared the chamber and rested with its full weight on the bolt face, it would fall off into the magazine well. That was a lesson I learned, you have to find ammunition with the correct rim diameter if you want the stuff to eject! Since then, I have seen similar on lots of rifles and a few pistols.

Check extractor tension by placing a cartridge under the extractor and see if it falls off. It should not.

 

[milemaker13]

Lotsa good replies here, as always. Thank you.

It is a newer second gen LCP (not lcp II mind you). I just got it from LGS a few months back.

I guess I could be limp wristing it (nobody likes to admit that out loud). I will pay closer attention to that.
Gun is lubed well, but I will soak 'er good for our next outting. And I will check the extractor as detailed above. I will report back after a few days.

Thanks gang!

 

[JTQ]

I guess I could be limp wristing it (nobody likes to admit that out loud). I will pay closer attention to that.

On the other side of the spectrum, it's also possible, especially with those little guns, is you're making contact with the slide with your grip and slowing it down.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

The LCP is a locked breech pistol, I think most 380's are blowbacks. I totally agree with JTQ admonishment to lube your pistol. Never run a semi auto dry.

I am going to offer a possible failure mode that would lead to a stove pipe: lack of extractor tension. I have seen this in rimfires. Shooters think the purpose of an extractor is to pull the case out of the chamber, well not really. An extractor will do that, and if it pulls enough cases out of the chamber, it will break. The primary purpose (talking auto mechanisms) of an extractor is to hold the case against the side of the breech face. Look at your extractor and a good extractor pushes the case against the opposite side of the breech face, fixing in place, so the ejector mechanism can give the case a hard kick. Auto mechanisms use the residual blowback effect to pop the case out of the chamber. The best unlock scenario is a frictionless case, popping out of the chamber (at less than 650 psia) during unlock, the extractor holding the case against the breech face. At some distance the case is clear of the chamber and the ejector kicks that case well clear of the loading port.

Now, if the exactor is worn, or case rim diameters smaller than normal (whatever normal the designers built the mechanism to use), cases will fall off the breech face and rebound in unpredictable ways just above the feed ramp. A stove pipe will be a common failure mode with a weak extractor.

I don't have any good pictures of my K31 Swiss bolt action rifle, but I had cases fall off the breech face. Back in the day, Norma cases were the only 7.5 Swiss rounds around and they were hideously expensive. But, you could fireform 284 Winchester brass. Unfortunately the 284 cases were of a lesser rim diameter than the 7.5 Swiss service rounds, and while cartridges would extract, when the case totally cleared the chamber and rested with its full weight on the bolt face, it would fall off into the magazine well. That was a lesson I learned, you have to find ammunition with the correct rim diameter if you want the stuff to eject! Since then, I have seen similar on lots of rifles and a few pistols.

Check extractor tension by placing a cartridge under the extractor and see if it falls off. It should not.

I shot thousands of rounds out of a number of LCP's. Never had a failure from a extractor. In fact during the ammo shortage and when 380 ammo was very expensive, I shot mostly Tula Steel case and the gun loved it.
The only failure I had after owning these guns were when I first started shooting them and would Limp Wrist them which would cause a stove pipe. And that was 10 years ago. I had other issues like cracks etc. But never a extractor.
By the way, change out the recoil springs on a regular basis.

 

[milemaker13]

.
By the way, change out the recoil springs on a regular basis.

What approximate round count do you recommend changing springs?

 

[Steve in Allentown]

LIMP WRISTING

I'm not addressing the OP's malfunction directly.

Limp wristing is real but the cure is not to start bench pressing 300 lbs, eating Wheaties, and chugging steroids. If you have to use one of these little belly guns for real, you'll likely be off balance, shooting with one hand, and scared out of your mind as the bad guy is spitting in your face. You won't be able to assume a text book perfect isosceles or Weaver stance. The pistol HAS to run under those conditions.

So what's the cure? Understand that in limp wristing what's happening is that the slide isn't coming all the way back. You have to make it easier for the slide to do so. Lubrication? Definitely. A clean pistol. Definitely. Hotter ammo? Now we're getting somewhere. A lighter recoil spring? Bingo!

There's not nearly as many recoil springs to choose from as for a 1911. Wolff only shows four spring weights available for the LCP (11lb is standard, 9lb, 12lb, and 13lb are also available). If your pistol is susceptible to limp wristing, drop in the 9lb spring then test the pistol for function.

Here's a video about limp wristing for those who haven't seen it:

 

[AK103K]

Limp wrist syndrome really has nothing to do with the wrist, unless it happens to not be behind the gun when you shoot it.

If you watch the video above youll see what I mean. Just looking at the pic above shows it clearly. There is no "mass" behind the gun, and the gun can move with recoil. Thats real culprit.

If you allow your arm and the gun to move rearward under recoil, thats something youre likely to see.

I had a discussion with the boy who made that video when it first came out on one of these forums.

I tried to duplicate what he was doing, using a Glock 17, and was unable to do so, as long as I held the gun in a normal manner, even with no grip at all, just letting it sit in my hand while I shot. I fired four full mags (68 rounds) that way and not one stoppage.

As soon as I held the gun sideways like he does in the video, with no mass behind the gun, I started to have problems. Not as bad as he was getting, but something like 1 out of 5 or 6 rounds.

I tried the same thing with my Colt Commander to see if it was just the Glock, and it wasnt. One other thing I found was, the Colt doesnt like "no, or a very light grip", and the grip safety kept the gun from firing more than the Glock had a stoppage.

It doesnt matter what the gun is, if youre allowing the gun and your arm to move rearward under recoil, youre going to have problems.



Another thing that amazes me too is, that people are amazed that a dirty gun can and will cause you trouble. Ive never understood why people dont clean and maintain what it is they trust their lives to, yet scream bloody murder when something goes wrong, and its somehow the guns fault that they weren't taking care of it.



One other thing that can cause function problems is ammo. And thats even more of an issue with reloaded ammo and old brass thats been reloaded and shot a lot. I load my brass to failure, and as the rims start to get chewed up from constant use, I start to see more and more random malfunctions. Stovepipes are a common one too. Sucks if you dont want to practice malfunction drills. Great if you want to be able to work your gun without thought when it unexpectedly stops working.

I think its a good thing to intentionally try and make what you plan on using to protect yourself fail in practice, so you know what to expect from it and why things might go wrong and how to deal with it when they do.

Stoppages are something EVERYTHING has eventually, and if you arent well-practiced at dealing with them, then youre going to be in real trouble when they happen and youre standing there looking at the gun like "***", when you really need to be doing whats needed to get it going again. That is something that should be ingrained to the point of no thought, and you just do whats necessary to get the gun running again, without stopping to analyze and troubleshoot.

.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

The LCP is very small and it has a snapping effect from the recoil. You need a firm grip on these gun. They need more control. My remedy was to just start shooting them on a regular and diligent training schedule. I ran them very hard and often. They are a challenge to shoot well, but you will be surprised how well you can master these guns, provided you put in the time and ammo. I now find all pocket guns fun to shoot. I will say, I have moved on from the LCP to other Pocket guns that behave so much better.

 

[AK103K]

The LCP is very small and it has a snapping effect from the recoil. You need a firm grip on these gun. They need more control. My remedy was to just start shooting them on a regular and diligent training schedule. I ran them very hard and often. They are a challenge to shoot well, but you will be surprised how well you can master these guns, provided you put in the time and ammo. I now find all pocket guns fun to shoot. I will say, I have moved on from the LCP to other Pocket guns that behave so much better.

I think this applies to pretty much anything if you want to be good with it. And a lack of following that being the reason I think we hear so many complaints about things not being shootable.

That said, with the smaller, "pocket" type guns, I do think you need to be a bit more realistic about things as far as expectations go. "Most" are still pretty limited in their usefulness, and still generally short range, short and desperate encounter type guns and best left to "back up", 2nd or 3rd line status.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I think this applies to pretty much anything if you want to be good with it. And a lack of following that being the reason I think we hear so many complaints about things not being shootable.

That said, with the smaller, "pocket" type guns, I do think you need to be a bit more realistic about things as far as expectations go. "Most" are still pretty limited in their usefulness, and still generally short range, short and desperate encounter type guns and best left to "back up", 2nd or 3rd line status.

I could not disagree more. They can be quite effective defense tool.Conceal great and very fast to draw and a excellent first defense. But then again that is left up to the individual. If you carry one, you owe it to yourself to master it. Otherwise, just leave it at home. Each to his own.I carry a pocket gun 95% of the time. The remainder is a Micro 9mm or Snubbie.

 

[AK103K]

I carried them for years, as a second or third gun. Ive always carried a full size as a primary, and still do.

Once I realized my Glock 26 could be carried just as easily, and in the same type holsters as my little guns, I got rid of all but my one Seecamp. Really didnt see the point to them. The 26 shoots like a full sized gun, at the same distances, and can have the same capacity, with a simple mag change, and using the same mags as my 17's.

I agree fully on learning to use anything you choose to its full potential. Having shot a few courses using things like PPK's, SIG P230's, LCP's, Baby Brownings, Seecamps. etc, and seeing how things went, they would not be my first choice unless it was all I had, and I had to make do.

But as you said, to each his own. We all get to make do with our choices when the time comes.

 

[tactikel]

My LCP (used) needed a through cleaning, after a few failures to eject I changed the recoil spring ($10) and lubed with remoil ( never grease). After 200 rounds it runs like a sewing machine.
Don't give up on this this gem of a CCW.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

My LCP (used) needed a through cleaning, after a few failures to eject I changed the recoil spring ($10) and lubed with remoil ( never grease). After 200 rounds it runs like a sewing machine.
Don't give up on this this gem of a CCW.

Good Point, these guns can get dirty around the 250 rd count. Not saying you haven't cleaned it, but it is a factor if you have not.

 

[George P]

Go to grocery store / hardware store and get a COPPER chore boy scrubber. Unwind 2-3 threads and wrap around a bore brush. Several passes thru the bore, wet or dry will do the job, then patch out.

Problem is most of the copper scrub things are NOT copper but steel with a copper wash so take a magnet to make sure.

 

[Garandimal]

return it for another and spin that mass production wheel again...

You don't appear to be familier w/ the Ruger Business Model.

Good quality, well engineered and rugged designs - assembled by chimpanzees.

Send it back to the Mother Ship? ...and it goes into the Armory, where highly skilled technicians go through it and make it right.

It is not uncommon for a Ruger firearm to require a trip back to the Mother Ship (gratis).

...Never had to send one back twice.




GR

 

[George P]

You don't appear to be familier w/ the Ruger Business Model.

Good quality, well engineered and rugged designs - assembled by chimpanzees.

Send it back to the Mother Ship? ...and it goes into the Armory, where highly skilled technicians go through it and make it right.

It is not uncommon for a Ruger firearm to require a trip back to the Mother Ship (gratis).

...Never had to send one back twice.




GR

Good quality - not according to all of their recalls
Well engineered? Not hardly
Rugged designs means they have to make the cast guns heavier, bulkier and more unwieldy to handle the same ammo

It is not uncommon for a Ruger firearm to require a trip back to the Mother Ship (gratis).

This statement of yours defeats the well engineered and rugged designs aspects of your post

Sorry, I have Rugers, have had a few others; decent, maybe but not God-like according to the fan boys

 

[Blkhrt13]

I have heard of people intentionally Locking the slide back for 12-24 hours to help break in a stiff recoil spring. I don’t know if that’s the deal. But it seems a possibility. I’m not an Lcp owner so I don’t know if you can do that.