What constitutes "very good" handgun skills?

[eldon519]

It sounds like some of you guys have some good experience with airguns. If I were to get a quality target air pistol as a training aid, what should I look for? .177 or .22? Is spring or pneumatic more favorable? How much do you have to spend to walk away with something of quality?

I had never thought about it before, but a nice air gun would be a way for me to get in a lot more practice since I could do it in my basement.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Here you go IZH 46M Match Air Pistol

 

[MrBorland]

Here you go IZH 46M Match Air Pistol

+1. I love my Izzy. Great training of the fundamentals, right in your garage (or basement).

 

[mes228]

Skills

No expert here, just my opinion. I believe " extreme accuracy & BullsEye shooting" are in a totally different basket than "defensive & combat" pistol skills. I can shoot fairly accurate if I shoot slo-o-o-o-wly and take my time. I do not keep pistols that I can't hit a rabbit at 20-25 yards with.

On the other hand I've been shooting 200-400 rounds a week trying to fire accurately and quickly. If I'm shooting 6-7 rounds a second at 7-8 yards I'm all over the chest area of a silhouette. I'm beginning to believe that the seven rounds a second relatively accurate is a superior skill for real life. I know now that accuracy and speed are like oil and water. They are quite difficult to mix. Right now I must settle for speed and RELATIVE ACCURACY. How good is good enough? I have no idea and truly hope to never find out. I am learning that I like high capacity pistols and low recoil. Very hard to not appreciate a good 9mm for this type of shooting.

 

[eldon519]

Thanks for the air gun recommendations guys, I'll start saving up!

One question: would it be too loud for use in a thin-walled apartment? Right now I'm living in a house with a nice basement, but I'm still single and relatively young, so I'm bound to be back to apartment living sooner or later.

 

[MrBorland]

would it be too loud for use in a thin-walled apartment?

That IZH wouldn't be. The pellet hitting the trap makes more noise than the gun itself. Pneumatic actions (pre-charged or single-stroke, such as the IZH) seem much quieter than, say, CO2 guns, making a pffft, rather than a bang.

The IZH is a bona fide 10m air pistol, and affordable to boot. The grips are as ergonomic as a 2x4, but I suppose they're meant to be modified to fit the shooter. Aftermarket grips exist for it, but I rounded the corners of mine and dremeled some finger grooves, and it's much-improved. One of the nice features of the IZH 46M is the ability to dry fire by cocking the sear independent of the charge stroke.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The Izzy isn't too loud for apartment use...what you'll have to do is dampen the sound of the pellet hitting the backstop. If you're cheap like me, a cardboard box full of newspaper, backed by an old blanket is pretty quite.

The IZH is a classic example of Soviet firearms design philosophy. Everything that contributes to function...in this case accuracy...is almost over designed. Everything else is pretty rough. I also understood that the grips are left oversized to be owner modified.

I was surprised how much they have gone up in price...almost double the last time I looked (when everyone was Out of Stock). Looking for a used one would be the way I'd go.

 

[38riverrat]

Well, the time honored standard is a whiskey bottle tossed in the air. I suspect that some could actually do it! Lacking a few square miles of empty shooting area, I think that a playing card at 25 paces is a time tested target. I can do that consistently with a rest, but that is cheating. About half of the time off hand on a good day.

rat

 

[Bovice]

One learns to "read" the critters and know when they are about to stop and ponder their own mortality. I am a wilderness survivalist and a shooter second. In a match, you'd probably beat me, because I don't shoot paper very well. There is something about focusing on a small, reactive target like a squirrel or even a tin can that makes me shoot a little better.

I find that I'm the same way. I only shoot as accurately as I perceive the target to require me to be, and I can't really force myself to do it any different. In other words, if you put up a paper plate for me at 15 yards, would I be able to shoot one ragged hole in it? Probably not. If you drew a spot with a marker or put a sticker on, I would. I can't aim small if there's no distinguishing feature.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I think that a playing card at 25 paces is a time tested target. I can do that consistently with a rest,

You didn't specify, but I'll take it you mean to hit it edgewise. 8 yards is a bit far away to be hitting it offhand...half that distance (4-5 yards) is much more realistic.

It is really a parlour trick...as it is just basic trigger control...but it was very popular on the last day of class. Everyone liked to have a picture of them holding up their playing card that they had just cut in half

 

[Ankeny]

I can't aim small if there's no distinguishing feature.

I had a guy show me a drill on steel that can help. There is a video at the end shot at 10 yards. Pick a (spot) area on the steel near the center and shoot a pair. Shoot at a speed that will allow the two shots to be close together. Pick another area on the target and shoot a second pair. The last part of the drill is to shoot one round at one of the pairs and the second round at the other pair. It goes like this: Drill.

 

[Byrd666]

Like more than one has said, if you are popping those lil' furry rodents at 20 yards while they are plus or minus a moving target, then you are doing better than the average bear I know.

Good shootin'

 

[A strange person]

I just remembered that aguilla makes .22 "primer pop" ammo that has even less velocity than most air pistols.

 

[Pete D.]

Aquila

About the Aquila primer fired ammo.....not in an apartment. It may be low velocity but it is certainly louder than any air pistol that I have fired....the primer compound used is enhanced/heavier than normal. Indoors, it would get your attention.
How do I know this?
Pete

 

[Pete D.]

:
Not quite. The targets are the same visual size (subtend the same minutes of angle) but they have different actual dimensions. They also have different scoring rings.

Not quite. They are the same dimensions.

However, the 50 yard target has a black 10-9-8- bull. The 25 target has a black 10-9 black bull, making the black bullseye appear the same size, as you mentioned.

About those targets: I was thinking about the bulls when I was referring to target sizes.

 

[jackpinesavages]

No need to go expensive on an air pistol; daisy or crossman's go for less than $60. .177 is much easier on the pocketbook too-use BBs.

No lie, it's just a basic set-up for your basics; breath control, trigger control, sight alignment/sight picture.

It seems odd to do it as an adult, as when we were kids it was an all day activity on the farm or in the woods behind our cabin up north. Make it so again. Targets, cans, hunting season for rabbits or squirrels.

Whoa! Holy smokes! $480 for an air pistol!! Wooohooo!

Here's what I plink with-years ago it was sold as a Daisy, now it's a Crossman...

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Crosman_1377C_PC77/198

 

[9mmepiphany]

It depends on what you want out of that air pistol.

I'm looking to see errors in technique, that means you'd need one that is able to reflect, in a quantifiable manner, those changes

 

[CraigC]

Standing, two-handed at 25 yards, I would think 3-4" should be very realistic.

I would go along with that. Although my personal standards for what constitutes "very good" involve a lot more than just accuracy. It also involves weapon manipulation (a large part of my single action shooting), reloading, drawing from a holster, point-shooting and accuracy well beyond 25yds.


I have to disagree with the statement that was made that beyond 25yds you need a rifle. I'm only really starting to use the sights at 10-15yds. 50yds is more fun and 100yds makes for a challenge.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Although my personal standards for what constitutes "very good" involve a lot more than just accuracy.

Mine would too, but the OP was:

I am talking about slow, deliberate fire at targets and game, and not quick-drawing rapid fire in defensive situations.

So additional skills should be addressed separately

 

[MrBorland]

I agree with Craig & 9mm.

When someone asks "what's good shooting", they usually mean "what size group could a very good shooter shoot if they were to simply pick up their gun and shoot 5 slow, deliberate, aimed shots?".

As was pointed out to me, shooting 25 yard cloverleafs is great, but it's a skill in need of an application. The "very good" shooters, then, are often those who've applied this skill in some way (e.g., some form of competition) while developing and applying others. The top shooters can display some very impressive accuracy, speed, and gun handling skills.

 

[Blackstone]

@jackpinesavages: I have a Steyr LP5 .177 air pistol, that's top-range stuff and it cost me £1200, which is near enough $2000 I believe. $480 is small potatoes

For a beginner, any spring-powered pellet firing air pistol should suffice.

 

[Cosmoline]

Nailing squirrel at 20 yards with a short gun is exceptional shooting. But remember that it's a very different thing than hitting a squirrel-size group at that range. I can do the latter, but not the former.

 

[tuj]

IZH-46M is a great target air pistol. You can even mount a dot on it. There is a guy selling increased rake grip kits on TargetTalk that you can sculpt to your hand. In any case, the stock grips kind of suck; you really need to shape them to your hand, they are deliberately oversized. But the sights and the trigger and the 10m accuracy are great. The dry-fire function isn't quite like actual fire, but its nice to have. Overall its a great value in air pistols.

 

[BCRider]

WOW! Tuj, that would even be too much for the most outlandish Sci Fi movie I can imagine. It doesn't even LOOK like an airgun or firearm.

 

[9mmepiphany]

this is the red dot that comes in their pachage