Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

What could be done differently -- Non-Guns Color Coded?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Freedom_fighter_in_IL, Jan 4, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Freedom_fighter_in_IL

    Freedom_fighter_in_IL Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,097
    http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20120104/US.Texas.Student.Shot/?cid=


    Please read this entire article and voice up what you feel could be done to prevent things such as this. It is truly sad when things such as this happen. It's fairly obvious from the statements and such that the young man was committing suicide by cop but still what do you feel the population could do to differentiate between these pellet guns and the real thing. The little red plastic endcaps and stuff are just not cutting it. The kids just tear them off or paint them. I personally do not see the use in making these BB and Pellet guns to completely mimic the real thing. If you want your kids to have a practice handgun, get them a .22 (many makers out there that are full sized) and teach them properly. Too many kids have been shot in the past few years over these damn things. I can't blame the LEO's in any way shape form or fashion. I too would feel I would have to fire if one was lifted towards me. It's just sad that it happens. Kids are naturally retarded. We all know it, we all were retarded at one time or another. It's just a fact of life. They take these toys out to "fool their buddies" and be "Big Bad Boy on the Block" and end up getting fired on by real weapons. If someone could show me ONE, just ONE, actual reason to have these things please do so. I am tired of seeing our kids getting shot because of them.
     
  2. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,486
    natural selection.

    act dumb? You die.
     
  3. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    Make it illegal to bring toy or real guns to school.

    Oh, wait, it already is.

    Nothing is ever going to prevent stuff like this.... stuff happens.
     
  4. dev_null

    dev_null Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Austin TX
    The picture I saw -- assuming they showed the actual one he used -- showed a pistol that looked like a Glock, and no red cap.
     
  5. Freedom_fighter_in_IL

    Freedom_fighter_in_IL Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,097
    Evil Monkey, I sure hope you don't have kids with that attitude.

    Navy, I am not just talking about taking them to schools. I am trying to figure out WHY they even exist. What is the reasoning behind having these BB/Pellet guns that are exact replicas to the real thing. You put a real gun to a kid and teach them responsible behavior with such. But parents seem to not feel the need to teach responsible behavior with these replicas. They seem to feel that their children can't get hurt with them since they are "just a toy". If you google "Child shot by police while holding a toy gun" and you get HUNDREDS of hits.

    I see 2 things that need to happen, 1- Find a way to seriously differentiate these things from the real thing so they are easily identifiable by LEO's. 2- Parents need to start realizing that these things actually CAN get their kids KILLED.
     
  6. Bobson

    Bobson Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    4,219
    Location:
    Snohomish County, Washington
    Unfortunately, suicide by cop is as much of an act of suicide as swallowing an entire package of pills, or shooting oneself in the head. Suicide, like theft, is never going to be completely preventable. If someone is determined enough, they'll succeed. And there's no way this 15 year old guy (I refuse to call him a "kid") didn't realize what he was doing. He meant for himself to be killed.

    The problem here isn't toy guns that look like real guns. The problem is suicide in general. Having said that, I absolutely agree that parents need to be more involved in their kids' lives, their kids' possessions, etc; but it's not a fix for this problem.
     
  7. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,076
    Because those that play Airsoft don't want to have airsoft guns that look like toys, they want real looking ones to further the experience. You come from real guns so you don't know what's it's like. Even some real shooters such as IDPA and other kinds practice with Airsoft guns in their house. They aren't going to want some green and yellow raygun looking thing, they want something that resembles the gun they use.

    You mean paint the tips orange like they already are? A lot of times the tips are painted or removed, even if it was illegal to do that yourself, it's already illegal to make threats with one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4MFUufR_4Y&feature=channel_video_title

    These people in Scotland hold airsoft wars all the time on a large scale. Do you think they wouldn't mind having their guns orange? The problem isn't what the toy looks like but those that wield it. THEY ALONE make the choice to carry it and brandish it, not the gun's realistic appearance.
     
  8. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    12,708
    Location:
    DFW Area
    They don't have to be BB or Pellet guns, they could just be plastic toys.

    Even if they're not made to mimic some particular gun model, they can still be mistaken for a real gun. Not every cop out there is an expert on guns, nor will they always get a chance to examine the "gun" carefully. That means anything shaped like a gun painted black could pass for a real gun.

    Even if you outlaw any toys that remotely look like guns, it still won't stop it. Kids are smart enough to make their own if they're serious about it.

    Or they can just use their cell phones like this guy did. It didn't look much like a gun but it sure got him shot multiple times...

    http://youtu.be/ruQmcQgolM0

    Trying to control behavior by controlling objects is always a losing battle. Most gun owners realize this instinctively.
     
  9. Bobson

    Bobson Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    4,219
    Location:
    Snohomish County, Washington
    Great sentence to sum this up nicely, IMO. I couldn't agree more. It's not an object problem. It's a people problem.
     
  10. tooltech

    tooltech Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    121
    Location:
    Mead Colorado
    One reason for them is as a training aid. There are many pellet and / or airsoft handguns made to the same scale as popular handguns. They allow you to perform holster and target acquisition drills in your living room.
     
  11. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    5,499
    Location:
    Arkansas
    So now we have to justify how our property looks because someone might do something stupid with it?
     
  12. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,076
    I just unload my gun for that unless you've set up a range for airsoft.
     
  13. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,486
    I don't have kids.

    But the way I see it, with million of kids existing in our society. There MUST be some that will die early because they're stupid. It's just the way it is. Not all the millions of kids will make correct decisions. Some just have to die and there's nothing we can do about it.

    Kids are dying all the time in this country. They're falling down the stairs and breaking their necks. They're playing with fire. They're not wearing helmets when riding a bike or skateboarding. They're running in traffic. There's no end to how it can happen.
     
  14. forindooruseonly

    forindooruseonly Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,060
    What can be done differently? Teach your kids to not do such things, and if possible, positively influence your kids' friends. Volunteer for community services at the YMCA or Big Brother/Big Sister. Try to educate them as to consequences of behavior and provide some type of discourse that helps them realize that when you are 15, you have a whole life to look forward to. That is where to start.

    Legislation will always be ignored. Suicide is possible through any number of means. To go on a Quixotic crusade against the windmills of toy gun manufacturers is not the solution. Neither is demanding something different from the police officers. When someone is threatening another person with what appears to be a firearm, it is inexcusable to expect the victim *which is the person being threatened* to differentiate between a toy, an unloaded firearm, a mock firearm made out of wood and painted black, ect. There might not be time to ponder the question. So they have the right to react as if it was real.

    Change starts at home. It's sad that he felt his life was so bad and that the only way out was to commit such an act. Maybe it was a case where he felt he had to have more attention or prove himself in some twisted fashion. And it's a shame that no one was in touch enough to see it coming, or didn't take it seriously. I read this and wonder what his home life was like. Was his Godmother taking care of him? What relationship did he have with his parents?

    A qualification to that, however. Sometimes, people do things that no one saw or could have seen coming. It happens. And the last thing to blame is the tool used - because there are always alternatives.
     
  15. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,531
    Location:
    TEXAS
    I do not know what could be done differently. My wife was a teacher for 38 years and to sum it up, sometimes they are just bad kids coming from bad parents. In my opinion todays kids do not know the value of anything especially life. Parents lavish them with everything they never had, or some parents do no want to take the time to constantly get in their face and make sure the walk a righteous path.

    I feel for the cop that had to shoot the child and we can just assume what his state of mind was at that moment and what it is now. We never know what the childs intents was, but if you were there would you have wanted to make a decision that would had led to more school children being shot or just end the threat after several repeated attempts to calm and disarm the individual failed.

    I feel that our country should hold children and everyone accountable for their actions. Their comes a time when a juvenile knows he or she is doing wrong but because the law protects them, they still commit the crime.
     
  16. Beaux Nehr

    Beaux Nehr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    459
    >freedom fighter
    >in IL
    >wants government restriction on toys to protect THE CHIIIIIILDREN


    Pick one.
     
  17. Freedom_fighter_in_IL

    Freedom_fighter_in_IL Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,097
    If it would keep a child safer by these toys being bright freaking purple with neon signs saying "I'M A TOY GUN then hell YES. I couldn't give one tinkers damn what adults want to choose to play with in their little weekend warrior games. If a grown ass man wants to carry a toy around and play big shot then so be it. My problem is with KIDS taking these things out and getting shot because of it! There is not ONE SINGLE damn use for these to be so realistic looking.

    Valid points John. Yes it is hard in the heat of the moment to differentiate just about anything held in the hand. But you still aren't getting my meaning here. The parents are led to believe that these things are completely safe and such. Yes the toy in and of itself is perfectly safe, the LOOKS of the toy are not. With the parents being misled and uninformed, the KIDS are the ones suffering. All of my kids, as well as my grandkids, have been raised around working firearms and all have been taught firearm safety starting from when they could reach there little hands out. The problem is, in todays world, thats a rarity. The parents today see these toys as a compromise to the real thing and under the false impression of total safety, they turn them loose with them.

    Absolutely! When it comes to the safety of children, YES! Anything and everything should be done that is humanly possible to protect them. I teach all my kids firearm safety and how to handle firearms to PROTECT them. Take away the curiosity factor and show them the destructive force of firearms and you will have a well taught child that will respect them and handle them safely.

    Evil Monkey, it is a relief that you have not reproduced. Your views on child safety being "survival of the fittest rules" are one of the reasons this world and our children are like they are. Please join a monastery and follow the celibacy rules if nothing else.
     
  18. Evil Monkey

    Evil Monkey member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,486
    I think you're on the wrong forum.

    Try this one out.
    www.bradycampaign.org
     
  19. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    2,223
    Location:
    Brandon, Florida
    I dare say that it quite honestly is not one of the reasons. One of the reasons the world and out children are the way they are is that 1) we now make laws so that Darwinian law does not hold reign and 2) parents aren't parenting.

    I had toy guns like this. I also had parents that made it extremely clear not to point it at at anyone that is not made perfectly aware that it is a toy because even the little plastic BB's could put an eye out, and that police were within their rights to draw a real gun on me because they could not tell the difference, and would be justified in their fear of blindness even if they could.

    The look of the toy aside, quote, "the teen was pointing the weapon at officers and "had plenty of opportunities to lower the gun and listen to the officers' orders, and he didn't want to."" is an act of stupidity if not outright suicide. Yes, it sucks, and I feel for the officer and the family. This was entirely his fault, and I guarantee you that if he was suicidal he would have brought a knife and threatened the officer with no expectation to actually harm him. If he wasn't suicidal, he would have listened to the commands.

    If I had gotten shot doing this, the headline would be ' "He should have listened to the officer," says victim's father. '

    Skinned knees, burned fingers, and the occasional schoolyard brawl is how we learn. It teaches us to watch where we walk lest we trip, check what we grab lest we get burned, and not to talk bad about our peers lest we get suckerpunched. I'm not saying that we should not take reasonable precautions against death or serious harm but how many children today do you know that will say 'please' and 'thank you' instead of 'gimme', and will check both ways before crossing the road? These are things we learned in kindergarten, not high school.

    The reason: my teachers and caretakers would warn me and explain, then if it hurt, it hurt, and it was my fault. We didn't have the benefits of parents warning us not to run around the monkeybars, knocking out heads, and the plastic coveres prevent the pain. We didn't have the benefit of having free reign to say what we will about Timmy's mother because he will get detention (expelled, now!) if he takes a swing at us. And now, parents don't even feel the need to warn their children because there are no consequences.

    There. You said it yourself. Blame the cause, not the objects. See the post above. So... what exactly is the issue with the toys?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  20. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,118
    Location:
    Central PA
    Down this road lies destruction.

    You are very upset at the idea that this fake gun led to a young man's death. But you're glossing over the most salient point:

    This young man wanted to die, and he followed through on it and got his wish.

    It should not greatly disturb us that he chose a fake gun -- or that a fake "enough" gun existed -- to enact his wish. If it had not been that, it would have been with a rope, pills, stepping in front of a bus, jumping off a bridge...whatever. The result is the same.

    Suicide is disturbing, but has been part of human culture just about forever. You cannot legislate it away. Putting us all in giant inflatable bubbles so we can't possibly hurt ourselves or each other -- even on purpose -- isn't realistic.

    Life is dangerous. It ALWAYS ends with death. It is often sad, scary, and disheartening. But we can't write enough laws to change that one little bit.

    You're blaming the existence of a toy gun for a kid's death. And that's not intellectually honest. You're lying to yourself and pretending that you/we/the government can control something that simply cannot be controlled. (Certainly not taking anything away from the psychological sciences which may someday be able to screen and medicate away depression and suicidal tendencies ... but that's not our field here at THR, and not within the scope of the original question.)

    Be honest with yourself. Accept life as it is -- rough, sad, tragic ... sometimes -- and don't swallow that placebo pill of "doing something for the children." That is merely a cheap way of assuaging your own feeling of powerlessness. Don't fall for it, and don't accept it from others. We ARE powerless against this -- and we should be "man enough" to admit it and accept it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  21. Remllez

    Remllez Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    980
    Sam1911 couldn't have said it any better in my opinion.
     
  22. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    5,499
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I'll start keeping other peoples kids safe when they start paying me to.
     
  23. bikemutt
    • Contributing Member

    bikemutt Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,187
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Should non-firearm guns be color coded?

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017163257_apustexasstudentshot.html

    Sad story which made me wonder if it wouldn't be sensible to somehow make non-firearm guns like pellet guns, BB guns etc. easily identifiable?

    I suppose if they were made to look like the blue replica training guns no one would buy them.

    I'd think though, if the cops in this story new for a fact the gun was capable of firing only pellets, the kid would still be alive today, albeit with a sore butt and a juvenile record. Not to mention the cops who I'm sure wished the story had a different ending.
     
  24. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    5,076
    Hmm, Where have I heard that before?
     
  25. Noah

    Noah Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    414
    Location:
    Ohio
    If the kid wouldn't listen to police, and he had a pellet gun (that can kill small animals, mind you) designed to look exactly like a real pistol, and kicker here, he wouldn't drop it when the police told him to...

    If you make them be painted blue, then what stops a criminal from painting his stolen gun blue and then using the hesitation it causes to shoot an LEO or citizen?

    Let's face it, don't go in public brandishing an airsoft, toy, BB or pellet gun. Especially not in a school. And if you do, listen to an LEO when they tell you drop it.

    Granted, it would be nice if the officers had used a Taser or Less Lethal Shotgun round, but for all they knew, this was a madmen about to start executing every student in the school.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page