So, Thanksgiving day I took my son over to my sister-in-law's for dinner, My father-in-law gave him an old CVA .50 caliber muzzleloading rifle. My son, he is 12, is beyond excited. The thing is we don't have any of the other stuff we need to use this thing. I know I need black powder or pyrodex, something to put the powder in, patch cloth & percussion caps. The thing is I don't really know anything about this stuff as I've never really gotten into black powder. My father-in-law was telling me some of it but I'd like to have it in writing & not be trying to operate off my memory. What we have right now is the rifle with it's ramrod & the wad that was in the little compartment in the stock. Could y'all advise me as to what I need to buy to get started?
What Do I Need To Get Started?
- Thread starter Mike J
- Start date
Steel Horse Rider
Contributing Member
Welcome to the world of smoke! Read the thread titled Black Powder Essentials at the top of the section, it will give you leads to any questions you may have. The biggest problem you will have is finding a source for the real Holy Black and then time to enjoy shooting it.
It is percussion cap.
.38 Special
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- 8,174
Congratulations to your son!
Either Pyrodex or BP will be fine. Many of us prefer real BP and I do suggest you use it if you can get it. Pyrodex is easier to find, in general, and if that is the case, so be it. Traditionally, 2F granulation or Pyrodex RS is the recommendation. 60 to 80 grains should do, at least for paper. It also is perfectly safe to use 3F or Pyrodex P, if that is what you find, and you can then reduce the charge by five or ten grains.
I do not know whether this gun is meant for conicals or round balls. Ideally, you would run a patched jag down the barrel and mark the rod to give you an idea of twist rate. If something like 1-30, it is a conical gun. 1-48 (and slower) is also very common, which calls for round ball. (With CVA, there also is a chance that twist rate is written right there on the barrel.)
If it is a roundball gun, .490" is a good place to start with balls. Anything of pure lead is fine. I kind of like Hornady's swaged balls, as they are very round and uniform. Cast balls are great, of course. Just make sure to orient the sprue up or down (not sideways) when loading.
It probably is a good idea to order a couple of different patch thicknesses. I would try .010 and .015. People, these days, often recomend an extremely tight ball/patch combo, in search of the last shred of accuracy, but I really hate having to use a hammer to load my gun, and have found that a looser combo rarely gives up significant accuracy.
Prelubed patches, by the way, are very convenient and work fine. I like the "Wonderlube" brand. They are slightly more expensive, but unless you plan on using hundreds of them...
Much is made of cleaning, but it's hard to do it wrong. You can order a steel loading/cleaning rod, but the rod which came with the gun will be fine. I like to use an undersized or worn out brass brush to hold a patch (the more traditional brass jag is perfect for shoving a patch down to the breech and then leaving it there!) as I think it helps get the patch into the corners of the rifling. Water is the key ingredient, and there's little reason to use fancy solvents. Ideally, a good amount of water is poured through the bore, after removing the nipple. That flushes out most of the gunk. Then wet patches are pushed through until they come out fairly clean. Some people like to then flush with hot water, which helps dry the bore. Others just use dry patches for the job.
So, a minimal purchase would be a pound of powder, a box of .490 balls, a bag of patches (preferably one of each size), a .50 jag or slightly smaller brush (jags come in two common thread sizes, so you'll need to check your rod tip), and cleaning patches if you don't already have any big enough.
Not utterly necessary, but close to it, are a powder flask, a powder measure, and a nipple wrench to fit the gun. None of it needs be expensive. Basic brass flasks work fine, as do adjustable brass powder measures. You may also want a short starter, which is simply a short wooden dowel with a ball on one end, to help introduce a tight patched ball into the muzzle. A "worm", which is a simple corkscrew affair that attaches to the ramrod, is also a lifesaver when a patch ends up stuck down the barrel.
Beyond that is a whole truckload of stuff which can be helpful but often is not. Most of us have all of it just because, but most of us keep most of it in a box somewhere...
Have fun, and take a look at Track of the Wolf, which is very popular with the THR crowd and generally has everything we need.
Either Pyrodex or BP will be fine. Many of us prefer real BP and I do suggest you use it if you can get it. Pyrodex is easier to find, in general, and if that is the case, so be it. Traditionally, 2F granulation or Pyrodex RS is the recommendation. 60 to 80 grains should do, at least for paper. It also is perfectly safe to use 3F or Pyrodex P, if that is what you find, and you can then reduce the charge by five or ten grains.
I do not know whether this gun is meant for conicals or round balls. Ideally, you would run a patched jag down the barrel and mark the rod to give you an idea of twist rate. If something like 1-30, it is a conical gun. 1-48 (and slower) is also very common, which calls for round ball. (With CVA, there also is a chance that twist rate is written right there on the barrel.)
If it is a roundball gun, .490" is a good place to start with balls. Anything of pure lead is fine. I kind of like Hornady's swaged balls, as they are very round and uniform. Cast balls are great, of course. Just make sure to orient the sprue up or down (not sideways) when loading.
It probably is a good idea to order a couple of different patch thicknesses. I would try .010 and .015. People, these days, often recomend an extremely tight ball/patch combo, in search of the last shred of accuracy, but I really hate having to use a hammer to load my gun, and have found that a looser combo rarely gives up significant accuracy.
Prelubed patches, by the way, are very convenient and work fine. I like the "Wonderlube" brand. They are slightly more expensive, but unless you plan on using hundreds of them...
Much is made of cleaning, but it's hard to do it wrong. You can order a steel loading/cleaning rod, but the rod which came with the gun will be fine. I like to use an undersized or worn out brass brush to hold a patch (the more traditional brass jag is perfect for shoving a patch down to the breech and then leaving it there!) as I think it helps get the patch into the corners of the rifling. Water is the key ingredient, and there's little reason to use fancy solvents. Ideally, a good amount of water is poured through the bore, after removing the nipple. That flushes out most of the gunk. Then wet patches are pushed through until they come out fairly clean. Some people like to then flush with hot water, which helps dry the bore. Others just use dry patches for the job.
So, a minimal purchase would be a pound of powder, a box of .490 balls, a bag of patches (preferably one of each size), a .50 jag or slightly smaller brush (jags come in two common thread sizes, so you'll need to check your rod tip), and cleaning patches if you don't already have any big enough.
Not utterly necessary, but close to it, are a powder flask, a powder measure, and a nipple wrench to fit the gun. None of it needs be expensive. Basic brass flasks work fine, as do adjustable brass powder measures. You may also want a short starter, which is simply a short wooden dowel with a ball on one end, to help introduce a tight patched ball into the muzzle. A "worm", which is a simple corkscrew affair that attaches to the ramrod, is also a lifesaver when a patch ends up stuck down the barrel.
Beyond that is a whole truckload of stuff which can be helpful but often is not. Most of us have all of it just because, but most of us keep most of it in a box somewhere...
Have fun, and take a look at Track of the Wolf, which is very popular with the THR crowd and generally has everything we need.
Last edited:
I am pretty sure my father-in-law said it takes round balls. I am looking around online at powder flasks, measures, etc. I am going to find somewhere local to buy pyrodex, might try black powder later. I will see what is available. It might take a bit to round everything up.
Sacramento Johnson
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2021
- Messages
- 84
Hi Mike,
Can you post a picture of the rifle? First thing you will want to do is see if there is an old charge/round ball in the rifle. Once that is settled, you will want to clean and lube it with black powder compatible agents. You will want to clean out any rust in the barrel if present and make sure the lock and triggers work correctly.
If it's a hawken style with a hooked breech, the barrel will actually come of the stock easily and makes cleaning alot simpler. If it's a Kentucky/Pennsylvania style, it will need to be cleaned etc with the barrel attached to the stock.
Can you post a picture of the rifle? First thing you will want to do is see if there is an old charge/round ball in the rifle. Once that is settled, you will want to clean and lube it with black powder compatible agents. You will want to clean out any rust in the barrel if present and make sure the lock and triggers work correctly.
If it's a hawken style with a hooked breech, the barrel will actually come of the stock easily and makes cleaning alot simpler. If it's a Kentucky/Pennsylvania style, it will need to be cleaned etc with the barrel attached to the stock.
Mike OTDP
Member
OK...You will need the following:
Powder flask. I like the cylindrical sort, they are easier to fill.
Powder measure.
Ramrod. Steel...I like the ones that Muzzleloaders Builders Supply sells, but Track of the Wolf and Dixie Gun Works are also good. You'll be using this for loading and cleaning. Get both a ramming tip and a ball puller (good for both pulling balls and patches). Be sure to have a muzzle protector on the rod.
Short starter. Tip...a rubber mallet is convenient.
Nipple wrench.
Round balls...probably .490. Concur that .010 and .015 patches should work, most likely .010. I buy dry Ox-Yoke patches, lube them myself. Or you can just take a patch and lay it on your tongue while you pour powder.
Powder: 3F will probably be best. Start with 50 grains, work up from there. I strongly prefer real black powder, the substitutes are corrosive.
Ask around your local shooting clubs...if you can find someone to mentor you, it will pay big dividends.
Powder flask. I like the cylindrical sort, they are easier to fill.
Powder measure.
Ramrod. Steel...I like the ones that Muzzleloaders Builders Supply sells, but Track of the Wolf and Dixie Gun Works are also good. You'll be using this for loading and cleaning. Get both a ramming tip and a ball puller (good for both pulling balls and patches). Be sure to have a muzzle protector on the rod.
Short starter. Tip...a rubber mallet is convenient.
Nipple wrench.
Round balls...probably .490. Concur that .010 and .015 patches should work, most likely .010. I buy dry Ox-Yoke patches, lube them myself. Or you can just take a patch and lay it on your tongue while you pour powder.
Powder: 3F will probably be best. Start with 50 grains, work up from there. I strongly prefer real black powder, the substitutes are corrosive.
Ask around your local shooting clubs...if you can find someone to mentor you, it will pay big dividends.
It will try to get a pic & post it tomorrow.
hawg
Member
Unless it's an old CVA Mountain Rifle the twist will be 1:48. It should shoot conicals and round balls both pretty well. The curved butt plate goes against your upper arm not your shoulder. If you put it against your shoulder you will regret it.
hawg
Member
That's a CVA Mountain Rifle. Twist is 1:66. Round ball only.
Cliff6
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2020
- Messages
- 184
Just to add to the above mention of a steel (or fiberglass) ram rod. The wood ram rod that is on the gun looks very nice and would probably work, BUT, if you do that, be sure to grab the rod about 6" from the barrel and push, then another 6" and push and so on. Do NOT bang your hand on the end of the ram rod. If that ram rod breaks when you slap it hard....it can have a very sharp point at the break and pierce right through your hand.
Mike OTDP
Member
+1 on this. Never had it happen myself...but I only use a wooden rod on a pistol. And even then, I normally use a steel rod with a muzzle protector.
Appalachiannative
Member
I can personally attest to this. I broke a CVA hawken factory wooden ram rod off and pierced my hand with it. I don't use wood ram rods anymore. My TC flintlock came with a brass one and this quickly became my favorite set up. I also like the aluminum ones with the handle that flips out to form a T shape
hawg
Member
I broke a hickory rod in the 80's by grabbing it too far up. I still use them and haven't broke one since. As long as you keep your hand close to the muzzle and don't try to ram a ball home in one stroke a hickory rod is fine.
Jackrabbit1957
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- Apr 6, 2018
- Messages
- 3,093
Check out Track of The Wolf delrin rods, they don't break and won't hurt the muzzle end of the barrel. Most of my front stuffers have them.
AntiqueSledMan
Member
Hello Mike J.
That is a fine rifle, they are very good shooters but as Hawg stated round balls only with that slow twist.
Also agree with Jackrabbit on the Delrin Ramrod from Track of the Wolf. These work very well with the CVA retaining spring.
Personally I'd suggest a good Jag, a Worm for retrieving a lost patch, a Ball Puller, extra Nipples, a Pick to clear the nipple.
I also would suggest an adjustable powder measure, maybe a flask or powder horn but always pour your charge from the measure not a flask.
For plinking, 60 grains of either 3F or 2F will be fine. For hunting, I'd bump it up to 90 or 100 grains.
Personally I think much more than that will be burning outside of the barrel.
You will need .490" pure lead balls, with a .020" lubed cotton patch.
We could start a big argument on patch lube, personally I use TC Bore Butter but it's no longer available.
For cleaning, I use powdered baby soap and hot water. Many say to use cold, try each and see which you like better.
Again we could get an argument going here, but personally I let the barrel air dry then wipe everything down with bore butter.
Before I take my rifle out for shooting, I first run a dry patch through the bore, followed by a patch soaked with rubbing alcohol.
I let it air dry awhile then snap a couple of caps before loading, there's nothing worse than having a charge that won't fire.
Many people will tell you different, but I've been playing with these for over 40 years and have learned much the hard way.
Good luck, AntiqueSledMan.
That is a fine rifle, they are very good shooters but as Hawg stated round balls only with that slow twist.
Also agree with Jackrabbit on the Delrin Ramrod from Track of the Wolf. These work very well with the CVA retaining spring.
Personally I'd suggest a good Jag, a Worm for retrieving a lost patch, a Ball Puller, extra Nipples, a Pick to clear the nipple.
I also would suggest an adjustable powder measure, maybe a flask or powder horn but always pour your charge from the measure not a flask.
For plinking, 60 grains of either 3F or 2F will be fine. For hunting, I'd bump it up to 90 or 100 grains.
Personally I think much more than that will be burning outside of the barrel.
You will need .490" pure lead balls, with a .020" lubed cotton patch.
We could start a big argument on patch lube, personally I use TC Bore Butter but it's no longer available.
For cleaning, I use powdered baby soap and hot water. Many say to use cold, try each and see which you like better.
Again we could get an argument going here, but personally I let the barrel air dry then wipe everything down with bore butter.
Before I take my rifle out for shooting, I first run a dry patch through the bore, followed by a patch soaked with rubbing alcohol.
I let it air dry awhile then snap a couple of caps before loading, there's nothing worse than having a charge that won't fire.
Many people will tell you different, but I've been playing with these for over 40 years and have learned much the hard way.
Good luck, AntiqueSledMan.
hawg
Member
I use hot water and Dawn dish soap to clean. I use olive oil for patch lube. I use canvas duck for patches and I cut them at the muzzle. Do not use petroleum based lubes for patches or cleaning. Water and Dawn is a good patch lube for target work. I fire off a blank charge before loading a live load.
woodnbow
Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,203
Your son has hit the jackpot. Those are dandy rifles, I once had a flintlock, .58 caliber like it. Should never have traded it away.
You’re getting lots of good advice here so I’ll only add to it by saying, for a young guy starting out don’t worry about anything close to a hunting load just yet. 50 grains of powder and a round ball with serve just fine at the target range and not beat him up. Take your time. Shooting these guns is a relatively slow process, enjoy the pace of it and try not to fill it with too much idle conversation. It’s easy to get distracted and miss a step, like adding a powder charge (called dry balling) or forgetting to remove the ramrod before firing. (Called “Oh Crap!)
Your FIL has also given you a great gift, a reason to spend time with your son. Cherish this.
AntiqueSledMan
Member
Reading what woodnbow has written reminds me of a guy at Rendezvous.
He had a procedure of leaving the Ramrod above the charged ball, thinking this would remind him that he was loaded.
He got busy talking and his turn came up to shoot, he aimed his rifle at the target and pulled the trigger.
He said it kicked like a mule, so he figured he had messed up right away.
His range rod was one of those Wonder Rods with the lifetime guarantee.
After he shot that rod down range, the largest piece we could find was about 4" long.
I guess he sent all the pieces he found back to the company explaining what happened, and they sent him a new one.
I've seen a lot of goofy things happen, but like woodnbow said, it's a slow paced event and a lot of fun.
I'm sure your son will enjoy it, I know mine does. Maybe Dad will need to get one also.
I do recommend finding a mentor, sorry I'm so far away.
AntiqueSledMan.
He had a procedure of leaving the Ramrod above the charged ball, thinking this would remind him that he was loaded.
He got busy talking and his turn came up to shoot, he aimed his rifle at the target and pulled the trigger.
He said it kicked like a mule, so he figured he had messed up right away.
His range rod was one of those Wonder Rods with the lifetime guarantee.
After he shot that rod down range, the largest piece we could find was about 4" long.
I guess he sent all the pieces he found back to the company explaining what happened, and they sent him a new one.
I've seen a lot of goofy things happen, but like woodnbow said, it's a slow paced event and a lot of fun.
I'm sure your son will enjoy it, I know mine does. Maybe Dad will need to get one also.
I do recommend finding a mentor, sorry I'm so far away.
AntiqueSledMan.
1KPerDay
Member
Sweet rifle. DON’T try to remove the bolster or the breech plug.
Ethan Verity
Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2021
- Messages
- 924
Just be prepared for some painful shipping costs if you buy black powder online. Unlike smokeless, black powder is considered explosive and needs hazmat shipping. I always get mine in bulk to help balance out the costs.
