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What do people want from their governemnt?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Jeff White, Jul 12, 2003.

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  1. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Taxes are going up everywhere. The federal government is running record deficits. Many states are facing bankruptcy because their constitutions demand balanced budgets. Americans are paying more of their gross income in various taxes then ever before.

    In another thread I read that two states are considering disbanding their state police agencies. There is no money to protect our borders. A report released by a blue ribbon commission bemoans the fact that our first responders are inadequately trained and equipped to handle another major terrorist attack or even a natural disaster.

    Yet whenever it's time to tighten the belt, we cut those services that the constitution specifically says is the function of government. The military (we can't have enough troops to meet all our obligations because we must modernize), homeland security (after the big push to federalize the screeners at the airports, now we're laying them off, maybe not such a bad thing considering how things are working out with TSA) The borders are wide open, our infrastructure is unprotected for the most part.

    So where is all this money we are giving the government at various levels going? Why isn't providing those services the government is supposed to provide the first priority for our tax dollars?

    What's going to happen to the politicians when we have another large terrorist attack and we can't cope with it because we've downsized all of the basic government services and bucked up the fluff?

    Here in Illinois, we've stopped construction of a new prison. Fired all the Captains in the Department of Corrections, scaled back the State Police, Master Sergeants and above taking a pay cut. The State Police are no longer providing many of the services (crime scenes, investigations) to the many small (under 10 man) police departments in the state. The Secretary of State's office taking a massive budget cut that will mean drivers license facilities will close and workers will be laid off.

    Michigan and Oregon supposedly considering disbanding their state police agencies.....

    So is this waht the people want, entitlement and transfer programs at the expense of public safety? How can we turn this around?

    Jeff
     
  2. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Partially correct. Needs to add . . . "and their legislatures refuse to cut welfare, entitlements, education and kill pork barrel projects."

    Instead of cutting where meaningful budgetary gains can be made, legislators instead cut where the public outcry will be highest but the votes fewest. It is a political reality that there are more votes supporting the confiscation of wealth than there are votes supporting constitutional limitations on governmental greed.

    It will stop and reverse direction only when those paying the bills say, "Enough!" It ain't happened in my state yet and we are in bad shape.
     
  3. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    What do people want? Well, I want to left alone (just today I sent my state tax info and my state unemployment forms and money to the accountant).

    However, everyone else seems to want something for nothing, a free ride on my back, and most of all a hand in my pocket.:scrutiny: Atlas may not be shrugging, but he is twitching. (Calm thoughts, do some tai chi, I'll be fine).:D
     
  4. 13A

    13A Member

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    I agree with what Waitone said 100%.
     
  5. brownie0486

    brownie0486 Member

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    El Tejon:

    It is almost impossible to run a business with all the taxes levied on the employers.

    I used to pay the state over 50,000 a year in employee insurances, taxes, etc.

    It seemed I was working for everyone looking for the welfare handout as well. I downsized the company 4 years ago to myself and have more left over than when I employed 17 full and 4 part timers. Go figure, they want to have people hired and then make the employers suffer for keeping people off welfare.

    I gave up and told them to get their robbery funds from someone else at that point. The more gross I made, the more I owed in fees, insurances till it got where I made nothing for working 24/7/365.

    Now I work 40-60 hours a week and take home twice as much. Course the state had to deal with the 21 people I laid off, its a viscious cycle.

    Brownie
     
  6. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    brownie, exhale, through the nose. Now inhale. Let's do tai chi together, cloud hands and then part the stallion's mane.:D

    The more I work, the less I make. What an incentive to work hard, hire more people, and buy new equipment.:what:
     
  7. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    No, they are more preoccupied trying to take our guns away and fight the war on drugs and fiddle with laws that take the word God out of the Pledge of Allegiance than they are concentrating on important stuff.

    GT
     
  8. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    What do I want from the (my?) government? For it to go away and bother someone else. That's all.

    Like El T said, everybody else seems to want the government to steal my money and hand it over to them, control my behaivor to conform to their idiotic mores, and generally run my life.

    Interesting question, though. Is the government the problem, or the parasites who create it? Or both?

    - Chris
     
  9. Bruce H

    Bruce H Member

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    People want government to do everything for them but they don't want government doing anything to them.
     
  10. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    Brownie, I never had that many employees, but I sure hear you on that point. For 13 years I had a business that essentially paid the employees first, the government second, and finally--if there was anything left over--me. Now I work out of my home and the government only gets the taxes on my income. And, except for the 9/11 syndrome, I'm doing better than I ever was.

    Once government agencies get established, it's almost impossible to disband them and the money pit they create. Here in WI, the legislature has proposed freezing local property taxes at current levels, unless there's some new construction or if the locality approves a tax increase through a ballot referendum. From the newpaper editorials and the screaming from local officials, you'd think that the legislature was trying to throw people in the street.

    All the legislature is asking municipal governments to do is get along on the same amount of revenue as last year. Why is that so damned hard to do? :banghead:
     
  11. SaintofKillers

    SaintofKillers Member

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    the secratary of states office in Illinois is going to take a 7% budget cut up from 3and a ahalf % that the governor orginally planned, the SOS is accusing the gov of lying to him about the budget cuts and stopping just short of calling the gov a racist. I am not to hott on gov Blago in Illinois, but the SOS office is one of the most corrupt agencies in the state. Besides all that did we really need to redesign the Illinois tags?? Last time I was at the SOS office all I got was an attitutde. The goverment needs to get out of everything except the military, its the only thing they can do without screwing it up. So you ask what do I want the GOVT to do for me?, protect this country from foreign enemies, the armed citizens can handle the rest. It has been said that over 40% of govt. is waste and corruption.
     
  12. Ryder

    Ryder Member

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    Neo-Who?

    I just read an interesting article written by Ron Paul which answers some of your questions Jeff - It's a pretty good read.



    We've been Neo-conned
     
  13. agricola

    agricola Member

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    Half of the problem is that with the current fashion for politicians to evidence their efforts during term with new agencies, policies and the like its (seemingly) impossible for them to spin a term which in which they created nothing; either that or they wish to seek popular approval by cutting taxes - but not from their favoured programmes, of course. Welfare programmes are thus implemented, not because of the of the actual effectiveness of the programme at treating the problem
    but because its an easy way of showing how electable the politician is. Over here the various "Best Value" schemes and the unbelievable pressure for constant measuring and changes applied to the NHS by both recent Governments demonstrate this clear enough. The sooner some politican comes along and actually visibly improves services rather than moving the goalposts and gets elected over and over again, the rest of them will step into line. :D

    With regard to the Police in the US it seems that the proliferation of small departments breeds inefficiency, especially in terms of the service that the PD could provide for the taxes it takes - especially in terms of clerking and the administrative side of things. One wonders how a PD with less than ten men can survive given inflation, other budget pressures and the huge potential for random "acts of God" which play havoc with our budgets, especially with regards to overtime and the like.
     
  14. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    What do I want from my government?

    What I want was put on paper in 1786 (US Constitution) and 1845 (TX State Constitution). Everything else from there can be done away with, as far as I'm concerned...:fire:
     
  15. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    SaintofKillers,

    You don't really believe they'll cut the fat from the SOS office. They'll just close the offices. Imagine driving 100 or more miles to renew your license.

    I still want to know where is all the money going? It's certainly not paying for those things the government is supposed to do.

    Of course while we're cutting all the essential services, we're building a new stadiu in Chicago so the billionaire sports team owners can make more money from the masses. Let's not forget the tax increases on businesses of all types, except for the entertainment business. Because it's such a shock that the movie Chicago was filmed in Canada, we have to cut the taxes on Hollywood to encourage them to come here to shoot movies. I'm sure that will provide good steady employment for all the people who lose their jobs in the trucking industry, cause that business lost its tax breaks. :rolleyes:

    On the federal level, we have a republican congress and president that wants me to buy drugs for everyone who's retired, but refuses to defend the nations borders...That would cost too much. :banghead:

    We have a foreign policy that is committing American troops all over the world, and a defense secretary who says we don't need to have any more troops, can't afford em, we have to buy new high tech gear instead.

    There is federal money to pay for a study of how women become sexually aroused, it involves paying coeds to watch porn. But there isn't any federal money to help buy every first responder decent protective clothing in case of a chemical or biological attack, which Tom Ridge assures us is due any time now.

    What's Wrong With This Picture???

    More importantly, what can we do about it???

    Jeff
     
  16. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Obviously, we must want bread and circuses, or we wouldn't keep electing politicians who squander our hard-earned tax dollars on bread and circuses.
     
  17. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Member

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    I wish I knew.

    It should be apparent by now that voting doesn't work. For every committed liberty advocate who heads off to the polls, there will be three twits who want that liberty advocate to keep forking over those tax checks for schools, roads, farm subsidies, and welfare payments. Majoritarianism is an ugly thing.

    The judicial system? Not a chance; the judiciary has been thoroughly corrupted by now.

    Bloody revolution? No.

    What's left? Well, we can still convince the masses that liberty is a good thing; and we need to keep getting better at that. We can try to slow spread of government or frustrate it through technical innovation, civil disobedience, and monkeywrenching. This is a good thing, as it gives us more time to pursue option #1.

    Either way, it'll be quite an effort.

    - Chris
     
  18. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    The state legislators need to have a pay cut to match that of the median income of the state.

    Then there will be the incentive to create wealth instead of poverty.

    Repeal all the unconstitutional laws starting with that SB23 BS.
     
  19. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Common defense: from foreign and domestic violent criminals.
    Contract enforcement.
    That's it.
     
  20. HBK

    HBK member

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    I want it to provide common defense, stop taking all my money, and leave me the hell alone.
     
  21. Ian

    Ian Member

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    Ideally, I want the whole thing to vanish in a big puff of justice. :)

    Like Chris said, on the individual level we can spread freedom philosophy while slowing the system down as much as possibly through noncompliance. On a larger level, we can concentrate ourselves in order to both make those individual actions easier and also give them greater weight. The only practical plan for such a consolidation that I know of is the Free State Project.
     
  22. MicroBalrog

    MicroBalrog member

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    And a safety net.
     
  23. Ian

    Ian Member

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    A safety net for whom and against what, out of curiosity?
     
  24. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Micro, the "safety net" is a hammock for my non-producing masters!:D
     
  25. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    In other threads, our Isreali friend indicates that he believes that a "safety net" is a civil right.

    Darwin is dead...
     
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