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What do they have in common ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by jmr40, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    All of these pistols have 2 things in common. What are they, and which of these would you carry in the condition they are photographed?

    triggers 025.JPG

    Not much on mysteries. They all have exactly the same trigger pull weight at 5 lbs. The safeties are all in the off position and to make everything equal the 1911 has the grip safety disabled since the others don't have one.

    This isn't my only 1911 BTW. I have a couple of others that either left the factory, or were worked on, to be a target shooter with trigger pulls at around 2.5-3 lbs. But this one is typical of out of the box 1911's set up for combat use.


    How about these, would you carry them in this condition.

    triggers 035.JPG

    All are Glocks just as they left the factory. They have no traditional safety; trigger pull is 6 lbs. Is one more pound of trigger pull enough to make them safer that the 1911 above?


    Now, what are the differences.

    All of the striker fired guns are technically DAO, the 1911 is SAO. But the reality is that they either have exactly the same trigger pull, or no more than one pound more.

    What about the longer trigger pull? It is no more than 1/4" and only required 1/2-1 lb. of resistance before needing the 5-6 lbs. in order to fire the guns.

    I've never understood those who complain about Glock triggers. I've always said that compared to typical 1911 triggers they were very similar. I shoot all of the above guns equally well. I can do better with the target 1911's, or my revolvers in SA mode, but I won't carry a handgun with a 2.5 lb trigger for personal protection.

    I'm not trying to run down Glocks or any of the striker fired guns. I own 7 Glocks and like them. I have no problems with carrying a Glock or other striker fired gun with a loaded chamber and no safety. AS LONG AS IT IS IN A HOLSTER. But what about those times the gun isn't in a holster. Or being reholstered.

    I think that there are times when a manual 1911 style safety, even on a "DAO" striker fired pistol makes sense. Most of us would cringe at the thought of a 1911 carried with the hammer back on a loaded chamber and the grip safety disabled. But that is essentially what you're carrying with a Sig 320, Ruger SR9, or Smith M&P 2.0. Probably others, these are mine and the ones measured. My Glock triggers are only 1 lb heavier. The original M&P's triggers are closer to 7-8 lbs.

    I know, "keep the booger hook off the bang switch". But the reality is "stuff happens"

    This is meant to put things into perspective. Not saying either is right or wrong, but might help someone who is on the fence about going to a striker fired gun with, or without a safety make up their mind.

    Personally, while I like Glocks a lot, but I've always felt they would be a better gun if they had a 1911 style safety. And I'm glad to see that there are other choices for quality guns with the safety option
     
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  2. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    The answer is every single gun pictured is based of JMB's tilting barreled action.. :)
     
  3. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    I carry Glocks and other striker fired weapons. I carry 1911's, Browning HP's, and other SA, DA, and DAO weapons.

    I utilize the safety mechanism that each platform is designed with, i.e. I would never disable a grip safety, whether on a 1911 or an SA XDs. Yes, the #1 safety is between my ears, but I will take advantage of any others that have been included. At the same time, I always carry in holsters that do not allow manipulation of the trigger while holstered.
     
  4. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I'm not 100% sure about the SR9 (very little experience with that design), but the Glocks have the trigger in the fired position. So assuming no hangfire, the Glocks are the only ones I would carry as shown, without a holster.

    But I see what you're saying.
     
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  5. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    Correct, that was lack attention to detail on my part when taking the photos, same with the Ruger. I intended for them to be in the cocked position as I did with the Sig and Smith. But I think most get the idea.
     
  6. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

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    Well call me a retard, if you want, but I'm not seeing any hammers, except the safety disabled 1911.
    JMHO, I wouldn't carry ANY of them. You want to talk 'two things in common" ? All right, all my carry guns are hammer fired, and they have a double action.
     
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  7. beeenbag
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    beeenbag Contributing Member

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    Let’s not forget that a striker is only partially cocked until the trigger is pulled. That 1911 hammer being fully cocked has potential energy only being held back by a mechanism designed to release.
     
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  8. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    I would not carry any weapon with a manual safety in the off position. I would buy the version (in the case of the M&P) that did not have the manual safety option and any other striker fired pistol that had said option. Not sure about the SR9 or FN.

    If I had to carry one I would carry with safety on and train to disengage it every time. No reason to have a manual safety on the gun at all if your not going to use it or worse, use it occasionally.

    I believe a long trigger pull, even if similar weight to a shorter one, is inherently safer.
     
  9. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    I carry a revolver.......:):rofl:
     
  10. Godsgunman

    Godsgunman Member

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    The similarity is I won't carry any of them. My carry guns are DA/SA or DAO. Working at a trauma center every handgun AD/ND I have seen has been a striker fired. Just had a guy yesterday shatter his left hand 'checking out' his wife's XD which as we know has a 1911 grip style 'safety'. Can it happen with a hammer fired DA, sure....maybe but it takes a special kind of stupid IMHO.
     
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  11. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    Sistema1927 has it right and this is what I practice as well with every gun I own!
     
  12. George P

    George P Member

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    I prefer "point and shoot" so no unloaded chambers, no guns needing a slide racked to reset the trigger first, no added thumb safeties - draw, point shoot. KISS system for me.
     
  13. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    I'm pretty sure the M&P is actually fully cocked vs the "partially cocked" Glock but it's academic, and both have firing pin blocks and trigger safeties which the 1911 lacks. Both of my current carry pistols are striker fired but they also both have thumb safeties which I use. The only way I would want to omit the manual safety is on a DA/SA pistol where the DA pull was long and heavy enough that I felt safe with it. This is just my preference.
     
  14. unclenunzie

    unclenunzie Member

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    One thing I can point to is a 1911 with grip safety disabled as pictured might fire if dropped on the rear. The trigger could through inertia pull itself. This is not going to happen with any of the modern trigger-safety-dingus pistols. So they are not the same in my view.
     
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  15. The Evangelist Cowboy

    The Evangelist Cowboy Member

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    The man raised on a DA revolver don't tend to complain about triggers as much. The heaviest trigger I've ever felt was on a taurus 605. Once the side plate was removed oil was sprayed through it and then air dried by compressor. Guess it got alot of metal shavings out cause although the pull was still heavy it was not near as "gritty". I carry and M and P 9c and Smith 642 everyday but if for some reason a handgun is in my hand for HD instead of a shotgun the Redhawk gets my nod.
     
  16. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    NIGHTLORD40K writes:

    But do you carry it cocked..? :neener:
     
  17. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    It's not the weight, it's the length of pull that makes the striker guns not need the safeties 1911s do.

    That said I prefer to shoot and carry SAO, if I'm not carrying a Glock.
     
  18. Riomouse911

    Riomouse911 Member

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    Firearms are truly one implement where the axiom “Stupid hurts” is true.

    Ignorance, carelessness and overconfidence are all equals when it comes to the potential damage mishandling any firearm will cause... and no number of manual or mechanical safety devices (or a lack thereof) will ever defeat them...especially if more than one are involved.

    Choose whatever firearm meets your needs.

    Then:

    Know the rules of safe gun handling, completely read the manuals, learn and practice (unloaded) the operation, only then become proficient with it at the range.

    Same routine goes for your holster.

    If folks did these things every time, religiously and diligently, the instances of ND incidents with every type of firearm would drop to very, very low levels.

    Stay safe.
     
  19. ontarget

    ontarget Member

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    I found that I like the DA feature of a revolver much better than my striker fired semi autos. I totally get it that in a SD situation if I am justified in drawing my weapon it better be time to also pull the trigger. I would hate to shoot someone who gave up at the sight of my muzzle because stress and adrenaline caused me to pull a light short trigger. JMHO.
     
  20. Pat Riot

    Pat Riot Member

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    I like Glocks. I have lots of experience with 1911’s. I prefer Glocks. Truth be told I trust Glocks more than I do 1911’s in any condition. I also trust my revolvers.

    The key is, no matter what your preference, to train, be safe and to also always be aware of the gun you have on you or in your hand.
     
  21. Tallball

    Tallball Member

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    I prefer revolvers. That's what I grew up with, and that's what I shoot best.

    I am also like George P: "KISS" on my carry pieces, DAO point and shoot. My LCP, LCR, Bulldog, G43 (and a couple of others) are draw, aim, squeeze, bang. I trust myself to be careful on a daily basis more than I do to remember a safety in an emergency situation, especially given that I carry and shoot a variety of handguns.

    I always use a good holster that covers the trigger, keep my finger away from the trigger, insert it into the holster with extreme care, etc.
     
  22. paulsj

    paulsj Member

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    From that bunch I would take the Ruger. It's compact has fewest sharp edges and it's most affordable.
     
  23. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    My immediate thought, before the thread even opened, was that they all have some mechanism for striking the primer. They also have a cylinder that is open on at least one end that is capable of handling high pressures (high when compared to ambient atmospheric pressure). Basically, all firearms have a lot in common.
     
  24. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    Seems like there’s been a lot of fussing over trigger pull and safetys, wonder why? gun guys getting bored or maybe self conscious?

    Don’t like Glock don’t buy Glock, afraid of 5lb striker triggers avoid them but why the constant self examination ?

    For/ Against everybody gots an opinion and proof the other guy is foolish or risking their life with a gun they don’t like.
     
  25. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Glock triggers are like 1911 triggers??? Trigger scales don't tell the whole story.
     
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