What Do You Carry For Defense Ammo?

[BigBore44]

Warp,
I don't think that is what badkarmamib is saying. I think he just uses what he knows and trusts. No different that the guys who still hunt with the old Remington core-lokt bullets. $18.99 at Wal-Mart. As opposed to $30-$40 for "premium" ammo. The premium stuff may indeed be "better". But it's not broke. Why fix it. He's still going to put at least a .40 diameter hole in whatever he shoots. You and I shoot premium. He shoots the cheap stuff. Reliability/consistent accuracy of the firearms/shooter matters more that the bullet selection. A whole lot of America's enemies have fallen to FMJ/ball ammo from handguns.

 

[Warp]

I guess it depends on how you define "broke". Bullets like the JHP you find in WWB are going to fail to expand a lot more than the current premium stuff. I would consider a JHP that doesn't expand in tissue to be broken.

But there is a benefit, even if it's just psychological, to constantly practicing with your carry round. I couldn't afford that, though, I think it's less expensive to buy and test enough of the premium stuff to know it works and trust it and do the bulk of practice with a FMJ, than it is to buy an inferior JHP and use it for everything. Guess it depends on how much you shoot though.

 

[Warp]

Actually, I think I'll do the math for my personal ammo in this context (only because I know what it is and quantities)

A pistol I got last year as the example. This one is 9mm. I have 2,350 rounds through it so far, about 200 of those are premium JHPs to test function and prove similarity to practice rounds....that's a fairly common number of defense ammo people report testing their guns with.

I'll not count shipping right now since that gets complicated, but I'm sure it would be substantially similar if I looked at actual orders and amortized shipping prices.

Good factory FMJ, Speer Lawman, $205/1k. 2,150 rounds of those would be $440. Federal HST $26/50 is $104 for 200. Total, $544 plus shipping.

To go with all WWB 147gr JHP...bulk price (500+ rounds) is $0.44 each so 2,350 rounds would be $1,031.

$1,031 to use all WWB JHP for everything, $544 to test a couple hundred premium HST and use high quality Speer Lawman for the rest.

I'm sure the numbers change a little depending on what kind of deal you get, where you get it from, etc, but I don't see how anybody who shoots very much actually saves money by shooting more expensive ammo for practice/bulk quantities. Even if you wanted to test 500 of the HST through the gun out of the first 2000 total rounds, that's still significantly less expensive than shooting all WWB JHP.

And the more you shoot the greater the difference since you don't need to continue putting hundreds of the premium JHP through to test function.

Does that make sense?




ETA: Let's just make 2,000 rounds the total round count, with 200 of those the premium HST (or whatever). That would be $473...so to spend less money using all one round it would have to cost $236 per 1,000....or less. And that's to have an inferior round in the gun for what matters, self defense.


Seems to me practicing with FMJ and loading/carrying premium JHP is both less expensive and higher quality.


That is why, when I see something like this (bold)

I carry Winchester White Box JHP's in my .40 and .45, because it has proven reliable and accurate in my guns, and it is cheap enough that I can practice non-stop with what I carry. I trust what I am "combat-proficient enough" with for shot placement, over the latest state-of-the-art 300% expansion, penetrates-any-cover-but-stops-in-BG bullets they try to sell. That being said, I won two boxes of Hornady Critical Defense .45's in Springfield Armory's sweepstakes last year, and loaded two of my 1911 magazines with them for winter carry, just because they are designed not to clog the hollow point with thick layered clothing. But, I wouldn't have paid the extra money for them, myself. I feel confident that WWB will meet my needs, if I ever HAVE need (and I pray that I don't).

I wonder if the person has done the math, or if they only shoot a few hundred rounds through the gun, because shooting all JHP at the range is paying extra money (and yet the performance of your defense ammo is still inferior)

 

[antiquus]

I carry Winchester White Box JHP's in my .40 and .45, because it has proven reliable and accurate in my guns, and it is cheap enough that I can practice non-stop with what I carry. I trust what I am "combat-proficient enough" with for shot placement, over the latest state-of-the-art 300% expansion, penetrates-any-cover-but-stops-in-BG bullets they try to sell. That being said, I won two boxes of Hornady Critical Defense .45's in Springfield Armory's sweepstakes last year, and loaded two of my 1911 magazines with them for winter carry, just because they are designed not to clog the hollow point with thick layered clothing. But, I wouldn't have paid the extra money for them, myself. I feel confident that WWB will meet my needs, if I ever HAVE need (and I pray that I don't).

You pretty much have the right to think differently, despite the efforts of internet commandos to set you straight. I really agree with the 'penetrates any cover but stops in the bad guy' statement - they won't unless someone finds a way to change the physics.

 

[badkarmamib]

Wow, wasn't planning on opening a can of worms. I saw my brother-in-law have a bunch of malfunctions with Speer Lawman. No, it wasn't my gun, but it was bad enough that I wasn't spending my money to find out if it would work in mine. I sometimes use Blazer, Federal American Eagle, and WWB FMJ's for practice as well, especially if I am going to be shooting a lot, so there is a little cost savings there, also. I don't reload (yet). And I don't really have storage space for thousands of rounds to wait for a range trip. Not saying that my way is better, just what works for me and keeps me confident. I simply feel there is way too much hype over what bullet works best, when there should be more emphasis in shot placement and practice. JMHO

 

[Warp]

Wow, wasn't planning on opening a can of worms. I saw my brother-in-law have a bunch of malfunctions with Speer Lawman. No, it wasn't my gun, but it was bad enough that I wasn't spending my money to find out if it would work in mine. I sometimes use Blazer, Federal American Eagle, and WWB FMJ's for practice as well, especially if I am going to be shooting a lot, so there is a little cost savings there, also. I don't reload (yet). And I don't really have storage space for thousands of rounds to wait for a range trip. Not saying that my way is better, just what works for me and keeps me confident. I simply feel there is way too much hype over what bullet works best, when there should be more emphasis in shot placement and practice. JMHO

That's fine and no argument here.

Except, well, people seem to justify a lower performance round/bullet by saying "shot placement/training is more important"...as if it's a one or the other (false dichotomy)...it's not like using a more reliable bullet (expansion) means you are not practicing, training, or think shooting somebody in the thumb will stop them. Nobody is saying better ammo negates the need to train.

I'd love to be shooting or training right now instead of talking about bullet performance and ammo cost, but right now, I can't do that (live fire or dry fire). So this isn't detracting from my practice/training.

 

[badkarmamib]

I went back, Warp, to see what you said you carry. I picked Gold Dots for my 6.8 SPC AR, specifically for expansion on smaller whitetail deer. The numbers are impressive on pistol calibers as well. I use WWB because it works, but you have given me some things to think about. I believe I will do some research before I buy my next box of carry ammo. Thank you for sharing your point of view.

 

[hdwhit]

My self defense round is a 45 ACP cartridge loaded with a 185 grain Hornaday XTP bullet on top of 9.5 grains of Blue Dot (it was a max loading according to the manuals at the time I loaded it).

They are shot out of a World War II vintage Ithaca-produced 1911 pistol and are accurate enough up to distances of 25 to 30 feet, which is about as far as I feel I am likely to have to use it.