Yes, the usual "argument" is "what does anyone need one for?" Remind them that products do not have to prove their need to the government in order to be marketed. The marketplace itself determines whether a product is "needed" or not. This is why you dont see too many .400Cor-bon guns marketed. I guess no one "needed" that. Of course there are places where need must be demonstrated. I think No.Korea is one. Cuba maybe another.
What do you say to your lib associates about Assualt Weapons?
- Thread starter jondwright
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CAPTAIN MIKE
Member
Not Assault Weapon - It's a SPORT-UTILITY RIFLE
My AR-15 is NOT an 'Assault Weapon' -- because it is not fully automatic and it is NOT used in military combat. However, it is one cool-looking (and useful) "Sport-Utility Rifle".
My AR-15 is NOT an 'Assault Weapon' -- because it is not fully automatic and it is NOT used in military combat. However, it is one cool-looking (and useful) "Sport-Utility Rifle".
ReadyontheRight
Member
Or "homeland security rifle" 
Fudgie Ghost
Member
Well, if you can, and I'm sure it's on the web somewhere, get a copy of "The Case for Assault Weapons" (or Rifles--I can't remember), by. . . damn! I can't remember the man's name! I know he's a lawyer. . . Very well written thesis going over the answer to your lib friends question. Very long and thorough. He also wrote "A Nation of Cowards". People, help me here, with this guy's name-- I'm having a brain fart.
Or. . .
for a more visceral answer: watch the '92 tapes of the Rodney King riots in LA, especially as that truck driver was pulled out of his truck and beaten, or when the LA police are hurriedly leaving a worsening area, tell the nearby people: "You have a constitutional right to defend yourselves. . . " or the stories out of the Homestead FLA area in the aftermath of hurricane Andrew.
Or. . .
remember what the feelings were like, (especially around here) just after 9/11---nobody was sure what was going to break loose next, and NOBODY was talking about getting guns banned--quite the opposite, even among previously anti-gun types.
mmmmmmmmmmkkkkkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy?
Or. . .
for a more visceral answer: watch the '92 tapes of the Rodney King riots in LA, especially as that truck driver was pulled out of his truck and beaten, or when the LA police are hurriedly leaving a worsening area, tell the nearby people: "You have a constitutional right to defend yourselves. . . " or the stories out of the Homestead FLA area in the aftermath of hurricane Andrew.
Or. . .
remember what the feelings were like, (especially around here) just after 9/11---nobody was sure what was going to break loose next, and NOBODY was talking about getting guns banned--quite the opposite, even among previously anti-gun types.
mmmmmmmmmmkkkkkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy?
Sam
Member
What do I say to my Lib associates about assault weapons? Nothing. I don't have any "lib associates".
When I come across a stranger that has a view, I demonstrate the difference. Then I explain that the AWB has nothing to do with my assault rifles. About 90% of them want to know how they can get an assault rifle. I show them the price tag and sell them an AR15.
Sam
When I come across a stranger that has a view, I demonstrate the difference. Then I explain that the AWB has nothing to do with my assault rifles. About 90% of them want to know how they can get an assault rifle. I show them the price tag and sell them an AR15.
Sam
SDC
Member
"Uh, aren't those the ones that can kill you super-duper, extra-special, double-stamp, no-quitsies dead?"
Waitone
Member
First things first. Welcome. . . .noobies buy ammo at the next THR shoot.
Assault weapons and assault rifles are miles apart in reality. An assault rifle is a technically descriptive firearm that exists. Assault weapon is a made up term by an anti-gun advocate named Josh Sugarmann. He created a term, infused his own definition with the help of some really damaged politicos and their aides. The term is confusing for obvious reasons WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE INTENDED TO HAPPEN.
In any case google up "gun facts" It is a pdf file just chocked full of facts and documentation. A great read in the tile library.
I've discussed the second amendment with anti's from time to time. In most cases they are profoundly ignorant but a few are without the ability to reason. It is most important to determine which species you are addressing. If they are ignorant you are doing the republic good by educating them. If they are without the ability to reason, save your breath and go argue with a traffic light.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Assault weapons and assault rifles are miles apart in reality. An assault rifle is a technically descriptive firearm that exists. Assault weapon is a made up term by an anti-gun advocate named Josh Sugarmann. He created a term, infused his own definition with the help of some really damaged politicos and their aides. The term is confusing for obvious reasons WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE INTENDED TO HAPPEN.
In any case google up "gun facts" It is a pdf file just chocked full of facts and documentation. A great read in the tile library.
I've discussed the second amendment with anti's from time to time. In most cases they are profoundly ignorant but a few are without the ability to reason. It is most important to determine which species you are addressing. If they are ignorant you are doing the republic good by educating them. If they are without the ability to reason, save your breath and go argue with a traffic light.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Whenever I go to the Range...
I always buy about 60 rounds more than I'll need for my AR15. Often there are hunters or families with their .22s and deer rifles. Their first response is to stare wide eyed at my rifle (mostly the younger shooters). Then come the questions: "Is that a machine gun?" "Is that what the military uses?" "Is that legal?" even "How was that gun affected by the AWB?" After answering the questions with simple answers, I offer them the opportunity to shoot it. Every single person, hands down, that I've got to shoot it came away with a huge grin on their face and often the comment "I'm going to buy one of those." They all of the sudden question all the hype they've heard about AW. Most of them are simply terrified of it before they fire it. They all think it will kick like a mule and blow the back of the range out. Many of them actually giggle when they realize there is nearly no recoil.
Discussion and reasoning can only go so far but nothing dispells misconceptions and myths better than personal experience. We should set a date each month as "Take an anti (or non shooter) to the range day"
I always buy about 60 rounds more than I'll need for my AR15. Often there are hunters or families with their .22s and deer rifles. Their first response is to stare wide eyed at my rifle (mostly the younger shooters). Then come the questions: "Is that a machine gun?" "Is that what the military uses?" "Is that legal?" even "How was that gun affected by the AWB?" After answering the questions with simple answers, I offer them the opportunity to shoot it. Every single person, hands down, that I've got to shoot it came away with a huge grin on their face and often the comment "I'm going to buy one of those." They all of the sudden question all the hype they've heard about AW. Most of them are simply terrified of it before they fire it. They all think it will kick like a mule and blow the back of the range out. Many of them actually giggle when they realize there is nearly no recoil.
Discussion and reasoning can only go so far but nothing dispells misconceptions and myths better than personal experience. We should set a date each month as "Take an anti (or non shooter) to the range day"
HungSquirrel
Member
Hear, hear!
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I can truthfully tell you I don't know a single leftist in Colorado. Heck, for all I could tell you, there aren't any outside Denver and Boulder.
LiquidTension
Member
When the need argument comes up, I ask what kind of car they drive.
"Using your reasoning, your car should be banned because it can go over the speed limit, which you don't NEED to do." Then comes the obligatory comment about how this is a free country and need doesn't dictate law. One good way to shut them up is to say, "I have several of the guns you're talking about. I keep them locked in a safe, and they've never killed anyone. Now, you give me one good reason why I, as a responsible citizen, should not be allowed to own one." Then, after much stammering on their part, either educate them more or walk away and leave them baffled.
"Using your reasoning, your car should be banned because it can go over the speed limit, which you don't NEED to do." Then comes the obligatory comment about how this is a free country and need doesn't dictate law. One good way to shut them up is to say, "I have several of the guns you're talking about. I keep them locked in a safe, and they've never killed anyone. Now, you give me one good reason why I, as a responsible citizen, should not be allowed to own one." Then, after much stammering on their part, either educate them more or walk away and leave them baffled.
Billll
Member
I like to put it in terms they can readily understand.
Me: Let's say you drive a stock, red, Honda Accord.
Anti: OK
Me: That's a socially acceptable car, right?
Anti; Yes.
Me: So lets say you paint it flat black all over, put a wing on the trunk, add mag wheels and wide tires, bolt on a cosmetic fiberglass front end, tint the windows, and enlarge the gas tank capacity a bit. Picture this.
Anti:Uh, OK.
Me:You now have an assault vehicle, which is banned in California and New York.
Anti: !!!!
Me: Let's say you drive a stock, red, Honda Accord.
Anti: OK
Me: That's a socially acceptable car, right?
Anti; Yes.
Me: So lets say you paint it flat black all over, put a wing on the trunk, add mag wheels and wide tires, bolt on a cosmetic fiberglass front end, tint the windows, and enlarge the gas tank capacity a bit. Picture this.
Anti:Uh, OK.
Me:You now have an assault vehicle, which is banned in California and New York.
Anti: !!!!
wolf_from_wv
Member
I try to say nothing at all. I would rather go outside and talk to the wall... I think it would at least let me finish my sentence.
I was laughing at the stupidity of a couple guys who got in a gunfight over some fried chicken on day. The most liberal person I know, came over to see the article in the paper. She said "Do you have guns?" I made the dumb mistake of answering yes. She said "Is it do defend yourself?", in a really condescending tone of voice. I said no, it's for clay pigeons. Gave a very brief description of that. She got a kick out of that one, started laughing. As she left, she said, "I hope you don't have little kids in your house."
:banghead:
That was the last "conversation" I had with her. It was one too many.
:banghead:
If a "little kid" can climb up 7 feet to the key cabinet, get the key, open the door, figure out the action release, lift the gun (one is 870 express with 15 rounds in or on it), carry the gun, then there could be a problem... Oh, I forgot about them having to get into the room with the gun "locker" to begin with... The one I'm thinking about is 15 months old {neice... visits occasionally}...
I was laughing at the stupidity of a couple guys who got in a gunfight over some fried chicken on day. The most liberal person I know, came over to see the article in the paper. She said "Do you have guns?" I made the dumb mistake of answering yes. She said "Is it do defend yourself?", in a really condescending tone of voice. I said no, it's for clay pigeons. Gave a very brief description of that. She got a kick out of that one, started laughing. As she left, she said, "I hope you don't have little kids in your house."
:banghead:
That was the last "conversation" I had with her. It was one too many.
:banghead:
If a "little kid" can climb up 7 feet to the key cabinet, get the key, open the door, figure out the action release, lift the gun (one is 870 express with 15 rounds in or on it), carry the gun, then there could be a problem... Oh, I forgot about them having to get into the room with the gun "locker" to begin with... The one I'm thinking about is 15 months old {neice... visits occasionally}...
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Kurt S.
Member
Very interesting post. A good illustration of the abject ignorance and arrogance of the knee-jerk antigun individual. This person is so astoundingly narrow minded and uninformed that she has no idea there is a very popular firearms sport that hundreds of thousands of people enjoy. Keep in mind that skeet/trap/clays is often portrayed in books, TV, and films. A person with any breadth of common knowledge would know about it. She then treats your explanation with mocking laughter.
God bless the progunners that try to turn somebody like this woman, but it's way too much of an uphill task for me.
a die hard anti isnt worth the effort. in the time it takes to convince 1 anti that isnt gonna listen to facts, you can convert 20 or more uninformed fence sitters with simple facts and/or a trip to the range.
the whole gun control arguement I have found that pointing out that all gun control laws place you and me and every other law abideing citizen into the same catagory as common criminals. and than point out that criminals could care less about any firearm laws they might be breaking. because they are criminals, that are defined as people who break the law. leaving the law abiding citizens to have their rights infringed and do nothing to stop crime.
the whole gun control arguement I have found that pointing out that all gun control laws place you and me and every other law abideing citizen into the same catagory as common criminals. and than point out that criminals could care less about any firearm laws they might be breaking. because they are criminals, that are defined as people who break the law. leaving the law abiding citizens to have their rights infringed and do nothing to stop crime.
Black Snowman
Member
Funny, most of my liberal associates either aren't anti-gun anymore or don't want to talk to me these days. 
rock jock
Member
Everyone I work with is conservative, everyone I go to church with is conservative, all my friends are conservative, and my family and my wife's family are all conservative. If I want to talk with a liberal, I'll look under the nearest rock.
Rockrivr1
Member
When this subject comes up I usually start tuning out whoever is spewing it. That is until they are done talking and waiting for me to say something. That's when I point blank say we're going to the range and I'll pick them up at so and so time. Most of the time they initially look shocked and appalled. Then it's like a light goes off in thier head when they realize they are actually going to shoot a gun. Great way to convert some of those antis.
No one at work says anything to me anymore. They all know I'm very pro gun. Could be the 50 Cal round that sits on my desk, or the 45 cal shrapnel that's there as well. Of couse it's not hard to miss my FFLs card I have next to them. Favorite saying at work "Do you really want to piss off someone that can take you out at 600 yrds". Of course you can only say this to people who know you. Otherwise, its a fast way to HR!!!
No one at work says anything to me anymore. They all know I'm very pro gun. Could be the 50 Cal round that sits on my desk, or the 45 cal shrapnel that's there as well. Of couse it's not hard to miss my FFLs card I have next to them. Favorite saying at work "Do you really want to piss off someone that can take you out at 600 yrds". Of course you can only say this to people who know you. Otherwise, its a fast way to HR!!!
Sean Smith
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 4,925
I don't bring them up. My little pistol scares them enough as it is.
No, that isn't a joke about my dating history.
No, that isn't a joke about my dating history.
Roadrunner
Member
I recall seeing a statement that more children die each year on school playgrounds then by firearms.
Maybe we should outlaw playgrounds.
Maybe we should outlaw playgrounds.
I will say this. Liberals are very rude. I never bring anything up to them about what a pansy ass party they have or how they have no idea how Kerry was going to give them jobs, they just know that he is. But it seems like every time I'm around a lib, they have to start in on my guns.
My wifes cousin brings up the fact that she thinks nobody should have guns. Her husband blames George Bush because he didn't have a job and they are broke. I have to keep reminding them that they live in Flint MI. which is a GM town and they drive a foreign car. Then I have to tell them quit bit!@##$ about how you don't have a job when you're supporting a foreign economy. My company offered to hire him within his field and wasn't even interested. He like laying around on the couch complaining more I guess.
Anyway, my point is, you're never going to talk to a lib about assault weapons, rifles, guns, knifes, dogs, or cats. They just want to complain. They don't really care to hear your explanation as long as your hearing how stupid your beliefs are from them. There is no point. In reality, I simply invite them to the gun range and if they don't want to go then I tell them don't ever talk to me about this subject again until you are willing to have an open mind and come try it. After that, we'll talk.
My wifes cousin brings up the fact that she thinks nobody should have guns. Her husband blames George Bush because he didn't have a job and they are broke. I have to keep reminding them that they live in Flint MI. which is a GM town and they drive a foreign car. Then I have to tell them quit bit!@##$ about how you don't have a job when you're supporting a foreign economy. My company offered to hire him within his field and wasn't even interested. He like laying around on the couch complaining more I guess.
Anyway, my point is, you're never going to talk to a lib about assault weapons, rifles, guns, knifes, dogs, or cats. They just want to complain. They don't really care to hear your explanation as long as your hearing how stupid your beliefs are from them. There is no point. In reality, I simply invite them to the gun range and if they don't want to go then I tell them don't ever talk to me about this subject again until you are willing to have an open mind and come try it. After that, we'll talk.
Burt Blade
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
- Messages
- 477
Over a century ago, a bunch of folks who called themselves "Democrats" wanted to keep rapid-fire rifles and handguns out of the "wrong" hands. Some went further, and wanted _all_ guns barred from the "wrong" hands. Others just wanted the _effective_ guns banned from the "wrong" hands.
Hands that were black, poor, and starting to act like they had rights, too.
And still, today, there are folks who want to ban the guns that let _one_ person defend against a mob. They fear that a person with the power to enforce his rights might stop _obeying_ his betters. Make no mistake. This is all about power and dominance. The slaver cannot stand the idea of a free man saying "no". It makes little difference if that slaver is called "Cotton Farmer" or "Social Progressive".
They believe they are better than you, wiser than you, and that they should be directing your life. To them, you are too stupid or evil to be allowed to make your own decisions. Some of them will permit loose collars and light chains, perhaps even just a servile submisison. Others will go as far as they can imagine, and then still more. All of them believe that your purpose is to serve their aims, their way.
They see no threat to themselves in your wife, mother, or daughter raped and strangled with her own pantyhose. They see their own doom in your wife, mother, or daughter standing over the bullet-riddled corpse of a would-be rapist. The former slave with a Winchster or Colt was as terrifying to a bunch of sheet-heads as the former serf with AR-15 or Glock is to the modern cowards.
I have difficulty uttering a word strong enough to describe such people, who would render all rivals, and even bystanders, impotent victims. "Evil" just doesn't go far enough, nor does "tyrant", or "sadist". These people think that the good of society is based on submission to rape, plunder, and murder.
Hands that were black, poor, and starting to act like they had rights, too.
And still, today, there are folks who want to ban the guns that let _one_ person defend against a mob. They fear that a person with the power to enforce his rights might stop _obeying_ his betters. Make no mistake. This is all about power and dominance. The slaver cannot stand the idea of a free man saying "no". It makes little difference if that slaver is called "Cotton Farmer" or "Social Progressive".
They believe they are better than you, wiser than you, and that they should be directing your life. To them, you are too stupid or evil to be allowed to make your own decisions. Some of them will permit loose collars and light chains, perhaps even just a servile submisison. Others will go as far as they can imagine, and then still more. All of them believe that your purpose is to serve their aims, their way.
They see no threat to themselves in your wife, mother, or daughter raped and strangled with her own pantyhose. They see their own doom in your wife, mother, or daughter standing over the bullet-riddled corpse of a would-be rapist. The former slave with a Winchster or Colt was as terrifying to a bunch of sheet-heads as the former serf with AR-15 or Glock is to the modern cowards.
I have difficulty uttering a word strong enough to describe such people, who would render all rivals, and even bystanders, impotent victims. "Evil" just doesn't go far enough, nor does "tyrant", or "sadist". These people think that the good of society is based on submission to rape, plunder, and murder.
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