What do you say to your lib associates about Assualt Weapons?

[Sneaky]

I find that liberals are generally very well intentioned, well educated (strictly classroom), and catastrophically ignorant people.

A good way to begin a debate with a liberal is with the use of a hypothetical, a 'what would you do' scenario. Of course you are baiting a trap, but that's life...

Then a statement that appeals to their better nature.

"In a situation like the one I described, it isn't just your right, but your solemn responsibility to yourself and your family (or those you must protect) to seek the advantage, whatever that may be, and survive because of it. These weapons embody that advantage."

Then shut up. ANY discussion that leads to subjective interpretation of the 2nd amendment will go nowhere quick, and neither of you is sitting on the Supreme Court, so don't waste your time.

Logic and reason will not always prevail against an ingrained idea, but never hesitate to chip away at the wall. You never know how many before you have tried.

*hops off soapbox*

Cicero said "an unjust law is NO LAW" (emphasis added). Nothing a man can write down for others to read and obey can possibly compete with the divine right to stay alive.

dangit!

*hops back off soapbox*

 

[Sneaky]

Okay, sorry, chiming in again.

Doesn't it crack you up that the primary purchasers of ASSAULT weapons are departments of DEFENSE??

Food for thought...

 

[geekWithA.45]

What do you say to your lib associates about Assualt Weapons?

"Wanna shoot mine?"

 

[F4GIB]

A gun is a gun is a gun. They all propell a projectile downrange. What the projectile strikes and the damage is causes in entirely withing the control of the human being operating the firearm. Guns aren't dangerous, people are.

 

[jondwright]

Very good stuff guys. I appreciate the one liners and short paragraphs packed with facts and hypotheticals powerful enough to make even a liberal think. It is not impossible guys.

If I get the opportunity to talk to him about it again, I'll let you know how it goes. As it is now, no one knows I am into guns. I'm sure they'll know in time, but this is a pretty good opportunity for me to champion the 2nd ammendement and still appear very impartial.

 

[DFBonnett]

What do you say to your lib associates about Assault Weapons?


I don't say anything. These people have no concept of the origin or maintenance of freedom. I would no more attempt to discuss AWs with them than I would discuss "Macbeth" with the family dog. Either effort is an exercise in futility.

 

[dolanp]

I find myself being on the 'liberal' side of the fence on many issues. To me, anyone who supports a individual interpretation of the second amendment really ought to be called a liberal. The liberals are supposed to support the freedoms of the Constitution to the extreme. I don't agree with the modern-day liberals on some issues, mostly about social programs and fiscal issues, but most of all their irrational distaste for private ownership of firearms. I guess this makes me closest to a libertarian. When a liberal wants to impose strict limits on the ownership of guns, especially 'scary guns' that could be used to commit a crime, the best way to help them understand how foolish and authoritarian it is seems to be an analogy that they can empathize with. An appeal to their own fundamental beliefs but in a different context.

When they tell you 'assault weapons' should be banned because nobody needs them and they could be used to kill, talk to them about some other amendments they seem to like. Take the first amendment. Tell them 'Yeah that makes sense, I suppose we should ban protests as well because they usually turn into riots and people get killed. In fact, I'll bet riots kill more people than assault weapons.' Imagine their confusion about this statement. Surely they would be aghast at the suggestion that their fundamental right to free speech and protest should be abridged because a few people take it to a violent extreme. Perhaps that can give them a better view of the second amendment. Take some other plain examples, maybe 'Yeah I think BMWs should be outlawed because they can go over the speed limit and could be used for street racing. People get killed a lot in street races, and it could happen in a school zone where kids are playing.' Invariably, they will respond with something like 'Well that's silly, I know plenty of people who own BMWs that don't street race. Just because some stupid people do it doesn't mean they should all be outlawed!' The fundamental concept is the same, and perhaps it could help them better understand where you're coming from. After all, nobody needs to protest or own BMWs right?

It seems that the #1 misunderstanding about assault weapons, as others have mentioned, is that they have something to do with machine guns or automatic fire. If your liberal in need of re-education believes that to be the case, you can usually nip the whole conversation in the bud really quickly just by clearing that up.

 

[Wedge]

Why would you have liberal associates? j/k

My best friend lives in NYC and is what most would consider a liberal. We are actually pretty similar but he just sees guns as something fun once in a while out in the woods and I see them as a useful tool. I just tell him that there is no reason to limit liberty if you aren't hurting other people. He doesn't have much of a comeback to that one since he is for legalizing just about everything as long as you aren't infringing on someone elses rights.

Then again my friend isn't a jerk and actually is able to employ reasoning...

 

[Partisan Ranger]

Why do I need an 'assault weapon' (sic)?

Why do you need a Suburu WRX that can do 0-60 in 5.2 seconds and go 75 mph over the max legal speed limit? Why don't you buy a Hyundai instead? Both are cars, both will get you where you want to go. So why do you 'need' the Sube?

You don't really need it. But you WANT it.

In my view, this is a (sort of) free country and as long as you do not break laws and/or harm others, each of us should be able to buy what we please.

It's really easy to cherry pick this item or that item that you yourself don't care about and say 'why does anybody need a such and such?'

It always gets down to the fact that in a free society, people should be able to buy what they please, long as it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone.

 

[mbs357]

I just got through talking to a guy a few minute ago in IRC...he lives in California.
He wants less guns all around, but especially handguns.
His reasoning? He's tired of seeing children die.
After a while, the conversation died down with no leeway.
He's was all, "But if you get rid of guns, gun crime will go down.."
Yea...it might.

 

[homeka45]

No liberal friends.

 

[Mannlicher]

Now why would I discuss my guns, with any liberal associate? Frankly, what I do with that aspect of my life is just plain none of their business.

 

[BerettaNut92]

'Assault weapons' are such a hard sell in California you really have to get them into guns and have them dip their toes in the gun culture before they'd understand.

 

[280PLUS]

"Mine is for homeland defense, I keep it in the safe. Where's yours?"

 

[turretG]

I just tell them it's a standard semi auto thats designed to be as rugged as possible for use on the range or woods, why do you have issues with that?
And it's also true.

 

[landon74]

Since I don't own any assault weapons, it's not an issue....

My AR-15 doesn't have a third position on the selector....

 

[Billy the Kid]

Not all liberals are against AW or Guns, me for example. What should we say to people who broad brush and stick thier foot in thier mouth?

 

[mbs357]

I want a black powder muzzle loader...
With a pistol grip, and bayonet lug, a telescoping stock, a barrel shroud(Not sure what this is, but I want one), and a threaded barrel capable of accepting sound and flash supressors...not that they'd work, but I'm not looking for functionality.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

What do I say?

Now that it's light outside long enough after school, I'm gonna be shooting a couple times a week. Give me a few days notice, and I'll give you some trigger time...

So far I've had 2 guys offer to take me up on it.

 

[Firethorn]

mbs357, I'm pretty sure that the lug is fairly easy. After all, bayonets were orginally important because you couldn't keep the rate of fire up.

As for the rest, it'd make for an interesting looking gun. It'd also be extremely funny to show a vid of a prosecuter holding the weapon up and talking about this deadly, rapid fire, shoot from the hip instrument of death.



BTW were you looking at a flintlock one, or one that uses primers?

 

[30 cal slob]

I don't try to talk to commie-libs on guns. You can talk until your blue in the face and you :banghead: .

Instead, if they are willing, I invite them to go shooting.

Start off easy - say, a .22 revolver.

Then move up to a .22 pistol.

Explain the autoloading function.

Then move up to a beefier caliber.

Then, when they're good and ready, have them fire a real subgun, with and without a supressor. Explain to them this is a MACHINE GUN.

Then move to a rifle caliber in .223.

Have them shoot a semi. Say, a stock Ruger Mini-14 or Colt AR-15 variant.

Then, have them shoot a full-auto battle rifle (3 rd burst max). Say, a Ruger AC-556 or a Colt M-16.

They'll have an idea at the end of the day of the functional difference between an assault rifle and perhaps and understanding of all the cosmetic baloney associated with semi-autos.

It's easier for antis to see and feel with their own eyes and ears, rather than you talking about it.

Plus, most of the antis end up having a ball, having just shot a gun for the first time.

When these folks see other ordinary guys/gals having fun at the range, and doing it safely, they walk away with a different image of gun owners.

I've converted a lot more people this way (they pay for ammo and range time, I get stuck with the cleaning) than arguing with folk.

For the people that are willing (and not everyobdy will be), take 'em shooting! At least they'll have earned the right to talk about assault weapons, having shot them.

 

[Gewehr98]

It's somewhat akin to teaching a pig to sing...

A few converts along the way. Damned few.

My own definition of assault weapon is "A weapon used in the commission of an assault." Period.

Ex-boyfriend hacks up woman with a big honkin' Chinese meat cleaver? That's an assault weapon.

Drunk old lady on Interstate 95 plows into man changing tire on the shoulder, killing him instantly? That's an assault weapon.

 

[possenti]

"lib associates"???

What are THOSE? I ain't got none!

You must be refering to those sheep-like creatures that have wet spots near the crotch of their pants. Yeah - I gave up trying to reason with that species a long time ago. I hear they're endangered now...

 

[Werewolf]

I just tell 'em to ****!

That's probably why I don't have very many liberal associates.

 

[Lonestar.45]

I'll try to educate them some at first, if it appears that they're willing to listen and be logical/reasonable. Some of them, there's no way I could convert them. That'd be like trying to convert the Pope to Islam. Ain't gonna happen. I don't engage in guntalk with those poor lost souls.