What do you think

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by RustyFN, Feb 13, 2009.

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  1. RustyFN

    RustyFN Member

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    OK we all know there aren't any more small rifle primers to be found. I was wondering what you think about using small mag pistol primers for rifle since they are hotter than regular pistol. I wasn't planning on doing it because I have SR primers to last a while but if times got bad what do you think?
    Rusty
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    It depends on what caliber rifle you are talking about.

    It might be fine in a 25-20, but you might blow yourself up with a .223.

    rc
     
  3. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    Rifle pressures are a lot higher than any a SP primer is designed to experience. I wouldn't do it. I have used LP primers in reduced (under 20,000 psi) loads in 30-30 and have no problem but this is in pistol pressure range.
     
  4. Shoney

    Shoney Member

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    I would certainly try to work up loads with primers that have thicker cups, like CCI in order to avoid puncturing. FYI here are two articles on primers:

    Handloader Magazine published an article by A-Square. Here is a short summary of the test of primers in the Remington 7mm Mag.

    160 grain Sierra boat-tail, 66.0 grains of Hodgdon H-4831 and Winchester cases.


    Winchester WLRM (magnum)___ 3045 fps, 67,600 psi

    Winchester WLR (standard) ____ 3024 fps, 64,400 psi

    Federal 215 (magnum)________ 3036 fps, 61,400 psi

    CCI 250 (magnum)___________ 3039 fps, 61,500 psi

    Remington 9½ M (magnum)____ 3041 fps, 59,300 psi

    CCI 200 (standard)___________ 3011 fps, 54,800 psi

    The SAAMI max pressure for the 7Mag is 64,000psi.

    *****************************
    Here are the results of a test done to determine the brisance of primers:

    RIfle Primers
    Brand/type_________Power Average___Range____Std. Dev
    1... Fed Match GM215M___6.12______ 5.23-6.8_____.351
    2... Federal 215 LRM _____5.69______ 5.2-6.5 _____.4437
    3... CCI 250 LRM_________5.66______ 4.5-7.4_____ .4832
    4... Winchester WLRM____ 5.45______ 5.1-6.0 _____.2046
    5... Remington 9 1/2M LR _ 5.09 _____ 3.5-6.75 ____.6641
    6... Winchester WLR _____ 4.8 ______ 4.1-6.0 _____.4300
    7... Remington 9 1/2 LR __ 4.75 _____ 3.7-6.25 ____.5679
    8... Fed Match GM210M __ 4.64 ____4.0-5.6 ____ .3296
    9... Federal 210 LR ______ 4.62____ 3.7-5.5 ____.3997
    10.. CCI BR2 ____________4.37___ 4.0-5.0 ____ .2460
    11.. CCI 200 LR __________4.28 _____ 3.8-4.8 ____ .3218
    12.. KVB 7 LR Russian_____ 4.27 ___3.8-4.8 ____ .2213
    13.. Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old)_ 4.16 ____ 3.8-4.8 ____.3427
    Pistol Primers
    14 Rem LP ______________4.47_______ 3.2-5.6 _______.5171
    15 KVB 45 LP Russian _____3.89 _______3.3-4.2 _______.2232
    16 CCI 300 LP___________ 3.18_______ 2.7-3.5 _______ .2406
    17 Federal 150 LP _______ 3.11 _______2.6-3.5 _______.2090
    18 Fed Match GM150M ___ 3.05 _______ 2.6-3.7 _______ .2299
     
  5. ants

    ants Member

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    Any of us who admit to using pistol primers in rifle cartridges run the risk of being belittled and thrashed as idiots on this Forum. Accordingly, I will never admit to using WSP small pistol primers in 223Rem with 25.0 grains Benchmark under 55g bulk fmj, nor using Wolf large pistol primers with 43.0 grains H4895 in 270 Win with 130g Speer HotCor, and I will certainly never report that neither has pierced, flattened nor blown a primer. I would never do anything like that. I don't even know what you're talking about.
     
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    5.7 X 28 reloaders, myself included, use small pistol primers routinely, and it runs around 50K PSI. It all depends on the pressures generated. :)

    Rifle primers are thicker and can stand more pressure, standing in between the high pressure/velocity gases and your precious eyeballs.

    Try it at your own risk. :scrutiny:
     
  7. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    Two of my local dealers have over 5k each. You might think about stocking up when your dealer gets some in. I've got maybe 3k in my garage right now. Federals are starting to show up.
     
  8. RustyFN

    RustyFN Member

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    Like I said in the beginning I wasn't going to try it I still have 10,000 on the shelf. It was a what if the SHTF question. Just trying to gain some knowledge from those more experienced than myself.
    Rusty
     
  9. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    I'm considering using Fed. small pistol primers in reloading .30 Carbine.

    Think the pressures are low enough for those loads?
     
  10. Dean Williams

    Dean Williams Member

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    The 30 Carbine is definitely not a low pressure round. 40,000 psi. Higher than almost any handgun round.
     
  11. jcwit

    jcwit member

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    But with the design of the carbine you wouldn't have any gas blow back. Punchered primer maybe or blown primer but not gas to the rear, I doubt.

    With that said I would stick to small rifle primers & would prefer CCI.
     
  12. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The problem there isn't with pressure, but the increased risk of a slam-fire blowing up your carbine.

    Pistol primers, including Magnum pistol primers, have softer and/or thinner cups then rifle primers.

    Most small pistol primers, standard and magnum, have a cup thickness of .015-.020".

    SM Rifle primer cup thickness is most often .020" - .025".

    But each is annealed and hardened to different specifications, and pistol primers are more sensitive then rifle primers.

    You could safely use Sm pistol primers for a Ruger .30 Carbine revolver.
    But not for an M-1 Carbine.

    rc
     
  13. jcwit

    jcwit member

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    I was thinking the same thing regarding the M1 Carbine but could not for the life of me remember if it had a floating firing pin or not.
     
  14. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

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    I was able to get Wolf "223 rifle primers" from Powder Valley. These are simply small rifle primers with a thicker cup to prevent "slam fires" on the AR rifles. They should work OK in almost any small rifle primer situation.
     
  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Excellent point that I did not think about.

    I got mine (WFSRM) from Wideners some time ago. They are still stashed back for hard times, along with a few other things.

    From Wideners site:
     
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