What do you want to see happen...

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I am not saying to license it, I am saying that it should be recognized the same. In my perfect world if you have a CCW, you would be able to carry ANYWHERE in the US. I am comparing the reciprocity to having a drivers license and it being recognized in the whole country, not just certain states. That is simply what I was saying. When I applied for my drivers license, it was issued by North Carolina, but I could drive in any state(hence recognized federally) .I just wish that if someone is issued a CCW( which I feel should be a right to any non felon ) that they can go to any state with that weapon concealed and carry it with the permit recognized. I also feel that a right, established by the people and recognized by the federal government, should supercede ANY state law. I highly doubt this would ever happen but again it is what I personally, would like to see happen.
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So you want the federal gov't to trump states' rights and then make us susceptible to whomever gets elected?

NYC age for a driver's license is 17, the rest of the state is 16. A 16 y.o. NY state resident is barred from driving in NYC; these folks don't even recognize folks in the rest of the state - the point being that IF there was some national recognition and allowances, it would be on the terms of Schumer, Pelosi, et al - who would so many restrictions on where you could carry that it would prove unworkable to carry - and then that ability would be lost, even in more free states

Do you REALLY want that? The fed has never run any program without mistakes. You want them to fit a square peg into a national round hole and make it work to YOUR wishes; however, I can guarantee that it would go the other way.

In this instance, the old adage: "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it", is very apropos.
 
The only rights that the states have are those granted to it by the US Constitution, which once upon a time was a lot, but not so many anymore since the US Civil War.

But one of the rights that the states do not have is to infringe on the civil rights granted to citizens by the Constitution and Bill Of Rights. Even so, all the states already infringe some of these rights, especially the 2nd Amendment at the present time. Previously they did so regarding voting, when slavery was first abolished by constitutional amendment. So nothing about that is really new under the sun.

Ever since the US Civil War the Federal Government has been trouncing states' rights without let-up by usurping more and more perview and authority. Currently they do so regarding the abortion debate and certain drug use.

That's why Booth shot Lincoln. It was an issue similar to Julius Caesar. History repeats itself.

Remember SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS?

Poor Booth. Nobody appreciated his efforts. And schoolkids have been taught to hate him all their lives. I wonder if he would have done it had he known the ill reception he was about the receive, in his own day, and from subsequent history?
 
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The only rights that the states have are those granted to it by the US Constitution.
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Wrong - the only rights the the Federal Gov't has are those granted by the Constitution and continuously subverted by political regimes - all others are reserved for the States
 
Also, the the Bill of Rights does not grant citizens any rights. Our rights are God given or natural rights if you prefer. The Bill of Rights simply guarantees our rights and places limitations on what the governments powers are.

The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are small documents and there really isn't any reason for a US citizen not to understand the basic concepts behind them.

Not knowing our foundation is one big reason why we as a nation are drifting closer to a Marxist society.

Know your history people!
 
oneounceload said:
Wrong - the only rights the the Federal Gov't has are those granted by the Constitution and continuously subverted by political regimes - all others are reserved for the States
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This is my understanding of it too.
I don't want the Fed involved in this at all!
I'm a firm believer in States Rights and protecting them against Federal interference.

That said however, I'm also against State Governments who trample the 2nd Amendment as well.
But it's up to the citizens of that given State to keep their own State Governments in check.
If they don't, then that's too bad...but at least they can't cop out and blame it all on the Fed.
 
Bigkrackers said:
Also, the the Bill of Rights does not grant citizens any rights. Our rights are God given or natural rights if you prefer. The Bill of Rights simply guarantees our rights and places limitations on what the governments powers are.

The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are small documents and there really isn't any reason for a US citizen not to understand the basic concepts behind them.

Not knowing our foundation is one big reason why we as a nation are drifting closer to a Marxist society.

Know your history people!
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Well, in all honesty, I don't see anything specifically wrong with using the word "grant" when talking about the BoR.
The BoR was written by citizens, for citizens to grant each other certain protections while living in this country.

I mean, our country was also created with Freedom of Religion in mind too, and not "everybody" believes in God given Rights....because not "everybody" believes in God at all. And that's OK either way with me.

"Natural" Rights is also subjective as well really in my own personal opinion.
What "Rights" actually exist in Nature?
None that I've ever noticed.
All manner of creatures seem to be born, struggle and fight to survive and then eventually die anyways...and that's about it really.
YMMV
 
Actually, Shoobee, the distinction they're drawing (and you're missing) is that the States existed prior to the Constitution, and thus grant rights TO the Federal government to do certain things. The Constitution (and the Federal government defined by it) does not grant rights TO the states -- that relationship is backward. The Constitution merely recognizes (in Amendment 10) that the powers not delegated to it are left up to the States, or to the People themselves.
 
If the federal government gets involved concealed carry licenses wil become more restrictive and more expensive until getting one will be like buying a registered NFA item, beyond the means of most people.
 
I would like to see term limits for ALL POLITICIANS.

A flat tax for all Americans regardless of income, with few exceptions. Social Security income should be non taxable.

Stupid laws like those in Chicago, DC, NYC, that clearly violate the 2nd Amendment should be repealed.

Stupid gun laws intended to restrict a few, now restrict the entire state of California should be repealed. The solution is simple. Commit a crime with a gun, go to prison for a long time. Automatic. No ifs, ands, plea deals, or buts. Commit a crime as a gang member. Go to Prison, no plea deal.

Repeal most of the drug laws. Prohibition didn't work did it? Those that use will be weeded out soon enough. Nature, will cull the stupid from the herd in no time.

A jar of olives so I can have a martini.
 
No,I mean that the 2A should be better recognized. I want reciprocity to be universal by meaning in all states. BY NO MEANS do I want it federally regulated. I just wish that the states had the same laws. So dont confuse that or imply that is what I ment. I was trying to create a positive post that people could express THEIR own thoughts on what they wanted to see. Not one were everyone picks them apart. If someone posted they want to see stricter reglulation, I wanted to just know why, not argue with them. I was trying to keep it positive and get input from people on what they think might help our rights. I stated my own, it was not a question or up for discussion on why others think I was wrong. I am sorry I even started the thread. I hate that going from state to state with a concealed handgun is more like traveling to another country. I wish our states were "united" in the laws and regulations.
 
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I also want to see term limits for ALL politicians. 1term in office and atleast 1 in prison...lol. Seriously though I do feel our right are granted by the government, because they can repeal them or restrict them. I wish they were basic human rights, but I think alot has changed in the way the government views the BoR or its citizens. I just didn't want this becoming a "political views" thread.
 
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Ragnar Danneskjold said:
So then by what means should the federal government enforce recognition of the second amendment?
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That really "is" the question of questions.
I dunno?

The problem doesn't seem to be the recognition of the 2A.
The problem seems to be all the various laws attached to it.

I mean, what if the FED was totally in charge of everything instead...and then one day said, "OK that's it. No more guns for ANYBODY ever again of any kind what so ever?" "Period."

I'm pretty sure that would lead to revolt.
So even though our system isn't perfect, I still say it should be a State thing.
But I don't have the specific answer to your question.
 
I would like to see Tennessee adapt the same laws that some other states have when it comes to posted property. If you are caught carrying and refuse to leave, then and only then can you be sited for trespassing instead of a misdemeanor and fine like we now have.
 
SabbathWolf said:
Well, in all honesty, I don't see anything specifically wrong with using the word "grant" when talking about the BoR.
The BoR was written by citizens, for citizens to grant each other certain protections while living in this country.

I mean, our country was also created with Freedom of Religion in mind too, and not "everybody" believes in God given Rights....because not "everybody" believes in God at all. And that's OK either way with me.

"Natural" Rights is also subjective as well really in my own personal opinion.
What "Rights" actually exist in Nature?
None that I've ever noticed.
All manner of creatures seem to be born, struggle and fight to survive and then eventually die anyways...and that's about it really.
YMMV
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This is what I mean by understanding the basic principles behind the Bill of Rights and the Constitutions as a whole.

Words mean something and when writing the Constitutions our founding fathers paid attention to the meaning of those words and chose them carefully. Lexicon is important and should not be watered down. As to natural rights and God given rights, in context of the Constitution they are not subjective. You don't have to believe in God or a supreme being to benefit from the rights and liberties that established this country by those who did.

Read the second sentence of the Declaration of Independence. That will give you some good insight as to what the people that establish this country were thinking; man does not grant us our basic rights, our creator does. Therefore, man cannot take them away. No semantics, no subjectiveness but carefully chosen words to convey a specific belief.
 
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the declaration of independence and the constitution are small documents and there really isn't any reason for a us citizen not to understand the basic concepts behind them.

Not knowing our foundation is one big reason why we as a nation are drifting closer to a marxist society.

Know your history people!
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Preach it, brother!!!
 
Bigkrackers said:
This is what I mean by understanding the basic principles behind the Bill of Rights and the Constitutions as a whole.

Words mean something and when writing the Constitutions our founding fathers paid attention to the meaning of those words and chose them carefully. Lexicon is important and should not be watered down. As to natural rights and God given rights, in context of the Constitution they are not subjective. You don't have to believe in God or a supreme being to benefit from the rights and liberties that established this country by those who did.

Read the second sentence of the Declaration of Independence. That will give you some good insight as to what the people that establish this country were thinking; man does not grant us our basic rights, our creator does. Therefore, man cannot take them away. No semantics, no subjectiveness but carefully chosen words to convey a specific belief.
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I've read it. Trust me....lol
I swore an oath to defend it and spent 20 in the army doing so......lol

You have missed my point completely.
If there is "no" creator to begin with, then we were granted nothing at all by said Creator in the first place.
That's why they go on to talk about the "People" being able to abolish a tyrannical government.
It's the People giving all the other people the right to defend themselves.
That right is not controlled by a monarch for instance...including a God.

I'm not trying to make this a religious debate or anything. And I'm not saying there is no Creator. I'm just looking at it more deeply since some of the founders were also Atheists and Deists as well.
 
Thank you for your service.

At the core of the Declaration of Independence is the idea that all men are created equal. This belief was aimed directly at the ruling class of England which claimed dominance over all by authority granted to them by God. The Declaration of Independence states the exact opposite claiming that God, our Creator, endowed everyone with certain unalienable Rights; Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. These Rights were not given to people by people, as you claim, because to do so would mean that people could take them away. Thomas Jefferson wanted to make it clear that our Rights were bestowed upon all of us by something higher than man, which would make it impossible for man to take them away. That idea is at the very core of both the Declaration and the Constitution and is the bedrock that this country was founded upon.

It has nothing to do with religion but a belief that no one person, king, queen or religious figure should be above another because they claim God told them it was okay. By stating that a higher power, in this case God, gave everyone the same Rights, it opened the door to true freedom from oppression. No more could a king claim dominance over you because he was born into a better class. No more could a government sponsored religion claim power over your life because it was sanctioned by the ruling class or by a Pope or other figure head. This idea is the fulcrum point of this country.

To be back on topic...What would I like to see happen? I'd like the States to take back control and force the Federal Government to focus on the areas it is Constitutionally supposed to be focused on. I'd like an in depth study of both our founding documents to be mandatory in the middle grade.

I want those things because I want to be able to build a full auto SBR with a suppressor. This would go a long way in my pursuit of happiness.
 
I'd like the States to take back control and force the Federal Government to focus on the areas it is Constitutionally supposed to be focused on.
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So what you would like to see is the repeal of the 14th Amendment?
 
I would like for the government to leave everyone the hell alone unless they do something which violates the equal rights of another person. That would be a great start.
 
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