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"What does breaking the 180 mean?" Or: how to get DQ'ed from a handgun match

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by 1KPerDay, Jul 27, 2020.

  1. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Thought this might be useful for new shooters or those who haven't shot in this type of "practical" competition before. My son and I shot a local match last weekend and it was his first.

    We had drilled the range commands previously, and practiced shooting and moving to different positions safely, and emphasized finger well outside the trigger guard and muzzle well downrange during movement.

    The first two stages he shot well and moved safely and carefully, but on the third there was a bit of a challenge with the 180 due to a barrier on the left and a required position forward of the position to the left and rearward of the barrier.

    As he moved back/left, he kept both hands on his pistol and the muzzle moved past the 180-degree line that is generally considered safe (unless the stage briefing specifically dictates otherwise and there are markers to indicate muzzle safe points).

    The SO was behind him and didn't see the violation, but I did, and since it was something we'd specifically gone over during the walkthrough (and because he did indeed break the 180), I chose to have him DQed for the match. He took it well, and I hope he learned.

    It's difficult to understand what it's like when the beeper/timer goes off in a match unless you've done it. Your IQ drops by 50 points when the adrenaline hits.

    Anyway, here's a video for any interested.

     
  2. Duster340

    Duster340 Member

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    Thanks for sharing this.
     
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  3. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    Sometimes all it takes is that one time.
    No doubt he will be more attentive next time.

    It sucks because you can tell he knows how to handle a firearm safely.
    I've never competed, but I can only imagine how easy it is to slip up if your mind is focused on the stage.
     
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  4. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    Yup, BTDT

    It is one of the bad habits, keeping your muzzle down range, that shooting in competition instills. Breaking your grip to keep the muzzle downrange while running backwards doesn't come naturally...it's even worst if you've had much "tactical" training
     
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  5. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Yep, the "position sul" guys really have trouble.
     
  6. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    Good on you, Dad.

    first, for teaching him about the more advanced firearms usage and safety

    Second, for getting him to the match with you. Phenomenal father/son activity.

    Third, for following through with the consequences.


    Great lesson. I hope he returns with you to shoot more matches!
     
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  7. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Being left handed, I feel discriminated against by all the right handed friendly stages. So I designed a stage that was primarily left handed and you had to drag a dummy to safety. That was a conundrum for the righties. Ha. Anyway, a good friend of mine and an excellent shooter, Nationals competitor, got all confused and ended up facing us. He just silently packed up and drove away.
     
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  8. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    3872D225-E8BF-4418-B65D-330A353D3691.jpeg

    Man, I have seen it all.

    From a turn and draw where the concealment flung the pistol out to a sitting start where the Ghost holster allowed the muzzle to contact something on the way to sit and drop the loaded pistol on the ground. Even 3 gun match where “tabling” a pistol knocked the safety off.

    Lots of stages with poor design or even “traps” that can cause all sorts of issues with muzzle control and even one instance where a barricade did it.

    One can imagine what happens when someone backs into a barricade like these.

    5550B108-FE30-4DE8-9A16-A7D0CABB8D2E.jpeg

    When your footing is on the very thing you backed into, excitement for everyone..to say the least.

    When I MD, I keep these things in mind, minimizing lots of “blind” backing and instead just make the stage advancing.

    Also comes from being hard of hearing and asking that the RO get close enough to here me but understand when I hear the buzzer I am going to be moving back very rapidly. Lots count of how many RO’s didn’t expect my foot on theirs.

    Same thing goes for low/prone positions, if I ever have them they are at the conclusion of a stage vs at the start or middle. Music harder if you unload and show clear before getting up.


    The one I will NEVER forget was around 2002 where a revolver shooter was shooting loads with too light main spring tension or too hard primers and was shooting, bang, click, click, bang, click, bang, click, bang, bang, click, bang, to get through 6 rounds.

    He should have quit and went home but continued for a couple of stages, until he lost track of the bangs vs clicks and for whatever reason decided to take a look into the cylinder to see if any cases still had bullets in them.

    Only time I have ever seen anyone point a loaded gun at their face.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  9. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    Wow!
     
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  10. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Yeah, I am awful at names but I will never forget his. Somethings leave lasting impressions, more than others.

    Why I always hate when DQ’ed folks leave. Much better lesson, if one sticks around to tape, tear down and put up vs take off with an “ah, there is always next time...” attitude.

    I understand people are different though.
     
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  11. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    This is why we spend time in the classroom in my Intro classes with blue guns and various movement scenarios before we ever let them have live ammo
     
  12. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Most of our DQ'ed folks stick around. As an aside, an issue we've seen is as members age, their gun handling starts to get a bit sketchy. It is a shame to DQ an older person. The SOs try to keep close to them to guide them to avoid such. These are club matches. However, some are scary. Since I've known some of them for 20 years, when they get into the 80's, it's a problem for some, not all.

    There certainly are unsafe younger folks.
     
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  13. Jeff22

    Jeff22 Member

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    Stage designers should be very careful about how they design their courses of fire. They should take into consideration the skill level of the majority of shooters that are going to come to their match.
     
  14. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    There is nothing about this COF that was difficult or dangerous at all.
     
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  15. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I have to agree but if the start position was at the target where he was DQ’ed vs down range, it would have been more difficult to break the 180 despite the fact he wasn’t thinking about muzzle control.

    I understand it’s not an MD’s job to “idiot proof” their stages, it doesn’t take a lot of time and the kid could have kept on having fun that day. I suppose everyone has to learn at some point and a club match is better than a sanctioned one.
     
  16. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    Sure, but retreating stages are not uncommon in USPSA. This is a failure of pops to properly prepare the kid for the match.
     
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  17. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    FYI he asked me to take him to next month's steel match so I guess he hasn’t been soured. :cool:

    We’ll go over safe movement and gun handling a lot more before then.
     
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  18. waktasz

    waktasz Member

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    Good to hear. Younger guys have developed a giant ego they have to protect so it's easier for them to bounce back
     
  19. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    The fact that it was you who disqualified him makes it more memorable. Lesson learned and he will move on and a lesson he won't forget. It's what good dads do. :)

    Ron
     
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  20. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Yep, for me more like 100:D

    Congrats for doing the right thing.
     
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  21. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    I saw a grown man, who had been hunting and shooting his whole life, completely turn around in a stage. Granted, the pistol was pointed straight down to the dirt, but still, a major DQ.

    I had to ride home with him. He was my uncle. And the timer does indeed take a toll on the I.Q. That's why competing is important. Learn to deal with that stress.

    Your son will learn the lesson and be better for it. Good Job!
     
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