"What does breaking the 180 mean?" Or: how to get DQ'ed from a handgun match

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1KPerDay said:
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As he moved back/left, he kept both hands on his pistol and the muzzle moved past the 180-degree line that is generally considered safe (unless the stage briefing specifically dictates otherwise and there are markers to indicate muzzle safe points).

The SO was behind him and didn't see the violation, but I did, and since it was something we'd specifically gone over during the walkthrough (and because he did indeed break the 180), I chose to have him DQed for the match. He took it well, and I hope he learned.

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Good for you. I think your son will remember this for a long time because sometimes lessons don't stick without consequences.

I hope he doesn't feel too bad. I also broke the 180 once shooting USPSA. It was my second ISPC match and I remember it well. It was in 2002 at San Antonio River city shooters. I was moving on to another set of targets and turned my body in the direction of my movement with my gun in front of me. Although I was moving to the side, it came close enough to the 180. The SO stopped me immediately. Thinking back now, I'm glad I wasn't shooting a course where you must backup (come to think of it, there's very few courses designed like that). Anyway, I digress. I thought I'd share this to let your son know that it happens and it's a good lesson.
 
1KPerDay said:
Thought this might be useful for new shooters or those who haven't shot in this type of "practical" competition before. ...

As he moved back/left, he kept both hands on his pistol and the muzzle moved past the 180-degree line that is generally considered safe (unless the stage briefing specifically dictates otherwise and there are markers to indicate muzzle safe points).
Click to expand...

I'd like to get into this type of shooting so I'm your target audience. But you never actually explain what the 180 line is, especially in reference to the course at the moment he broke this line. It's clear the rest of the posters know what it is but I'm lost as to what he really did. From the video it appears he pointed down at the ground, but not perpendicular to his body/movement, which would have put you the camera operator in danger. So what is this 180 line referencing at this moment and how did he break it? Even at 1/4 speed he appears to keep the muzzle down range....?
 
D94R said:
I'd like to get into this type of shooting so I'm your target audience. But you never actually explain what the 180 line is, especially in reference to the course at the moment he broke this line. It's clear the rest of the posters know what it is but I'm lost as to what he really did. From the video it appears he pointed down at the ground, but not perpendicular to his body/movement, which would have put you the camera operator in danger. So what is this 180 line referencing at this moment and how did he break it? Even at 1/4 speed he appears to keep the muzzle down range....?
Click to expand...
Good questions. In most cases there is a “moving 180” which is a line parallel to the back of the shooting bay you are in, and which extends out from your position straight to your left and straight to your right. You can pivot your body/muzzle as you move forward or backward into and out of the bay, but that line doesn’t pivot. It just “slides” forward or backward with you, but the line stays parallel with the back of the bay. Hope that makes sense.

so if we think of the bay as an inverted U, the 180 is like a bar with holes on its ends and the legs of the U are inserted into those holes. So the bar can slide up and down the U as you move, but it can’t rotate.

another way of looking at it is if you stand facing the back of the bay, and hold your arms out to your sides, and imagine you’re standing on a horizontal 360 degree circle on the ground with 0 oriented straight to your left and 90 straight ahead, and 180 straight to your right, you can move your muzzle anywhere within those 180 degrees and not break the 180. But again, the circle moves forward and backward with you but doesn’t rotate with your body as you rotate.

When my son turned to the left and moved backward, his muzzle was turned behind that 0 degree point on the circle. It may not appear clear on the video.

this is common with right handed shooters moving left, particularly if they are performing a reload with a pistol or running with both hands on a rifle.
 
You can point your gun in any direction from 0 to 180 in this image but not beyond that.
Something to remember is the 180 doesn't move just because you move. In the second picture, just because the shooter's shoulders are turned, doesn't mean the 180 has moved

180-1.png 180-2.png
 
OK, I think I understand it. So then in reference to the video we I don't "really know" where the 180* line is, other than assuming it's inline with the shooting box orientation. Using the box line forward of the camera then I see how he broke the 180 line as he transitioned. That correct?
 
D94R said:
OK, I think I understand it. So then in reference to the video we I don't "really know" where the 180* line is
Click to expand...

Think of the range like a square or rectangle, there is one side that is “down range” and one side “up range”. Breaking the 180 would be pointing the firearm in the direction favoring up range more than down range. “180” is composed of 90 degrees to the right plus 90 left of down range.
 
That's a tough call, let it slip by unnoticed and let him finish the match and bring it to his attention later, or call it out right then and there get him DQ'd and possibly a lil rosey tint to the face.

You did the right thing, best way to learn and it's good it was his old man and not a stranger jumping his rear for poor muzzle discipline. Integrity move. It'd be different if you were screaming "travel!!!" At a basketball game, safe muzzle direction is another thing entirely.

I've never been in this subforum, I'm glad I stopped by. Learned a bit myself just from reading. I'd love to cut my teeth on a match, they don't have any matches around Southern VT that I'm aware of but I'm going to attend the monthly club meetings for my local range and see if we could generate enough interest and willingness to organize an event sometime. Looks like a blast.

I guarantee the claim holds true, that your IQ drops 50 points once the buzzer goes off. All thumbs and legs o jelly..... got to be nerve racking. Good on you for taking your boy and good for him for participating.:)
 
He basically pointed his gun in the direction of the red arrow here. You can't point your muzzle behind the horizontal line between 0 and 180 degrees

180.png
 
Too bad for his DQ but you are teaching him right. He will remember this lesson.
The world needs more fathers like you.
 
9mmepiphany said:
I wondered about that also...thought it was a pretty obvious violation. You're not doing the shooter any favors when you don't call those
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I think alot of us wired that way, that you're more likely to give a "kid" a break, even if and when you probably shouldn't. I agree, he should have called it although maybe he didn't catch it
 
The 180 has nothing to do with what direction you are facing. It is based on where the backstop is.

Look at the two images I posted above again. The 180 doesn't change just because you've moved or turned your shoulders
 
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