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What Gun For Bears?

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Art Eatman, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    I wouldn't hesitate to take anything with the .45-70 but for the really big stuff, would forego the cast bullets in favor of the Grizzly Punch bullet.
     
  2. Alaskan Ironworker

    Alaskan Ironworker Member

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    Do they make that punch bullet in .452 cal?! Ive been looking at the “barnes buster” for my .454 carbine, but shipping up here is rediculous, probably the same for the grizzly punch. I rely on a local guy who makes reputable hardcast bullets. That rossi 92 carbine is my go to gun for bear Defense, its lighter, shorter, and points faster for me than the marlin leverguns ive owned. Plus my reloads match or surpass some 45-70 Factory loads. Also its cheaper, stainless, and holds more rounds. I havent found a good load that shoots perfect out of both my ruger toklat and the Rossi both though still working on that...
     
  3. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Yes, 320gr. There is also the Barnes Buster but its meplat is a bit smaller. Would have no problem with good hardcast bullets on bears.
     
  4. Tradmark

    Tradmark Member

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    I would have trouble with anything that can fail on something that can kill me. I’ve seen a friend handily out down a cape buff with barnes busters from a 454. They hold together very very well. Craig is right the punch or a monometal solid are the best. They may be expensive to ship but when youre in the field and if you ever need it. Its money well spent.
     
  5. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    I've used the Kodiak Punch on a number of big bovines to include Cape buffalo. I highly recommend them as well as the monometal solids when uncompromised penetration is needed. I too wouldn't trust cast bullets on something that can hurt me. But, that's just me...
     
  6. Alaskan Ironworker

    Alaskan Ironworker Member

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    Smaller meplat on the buster might make the feeding in the lever action a little smoother. Ill probably order some when dividends get here.
     
  7. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    That's why they made the meplats on the small side - so they'll feed. Let us know how they shoot!
     
  8. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    When I’m in bear country whether hunting them or not, you should also be prepared for defending against them. For those reasons a 30-06 will kill very effectively on a hunt, but I prefer my 375h&h for both fast kills when hunting or with defense. I don’t hunt bear, but I’d owe it to the animal to put it down immediately.

    As to the recommendations on slugs, I know they are used but for that “one shot stop” I don’t think the sectional density is enough to rely on. After all we are talking about the best tool for the job. 375h&h with 300gr is the perfect all around in my opinion for bear country.
     
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  9. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    I think sectional density is a poor determinant of lethality. The nose profile of the bullet will determine wound channel size, depth of penetration, and the stability of the projectile in flesh. If you are seeking a one-shot stop, CNS is your target irrespective of the type of firearm you are pressing into service. I prefer handguns, but for most people, a long gun is easier to shoot well.
     
  10. Jessesky

    Jessesky Member

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    I agree, that’s why I’m not suggesting a HPBT 6mm bullet with a .313 sectional density. The 375 with its normal round nosed bullets are effective on game to say the least, and have a high sectional density still. And while not as easy to tote as a handgun, there is a lot more power there.
     
  11. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    And with a round nose solid, you are throwing that horsepower out the window. It's arguably the worst nose profile still in use. The more savvy big/dangerous game rifle hunters began using flat-nosed solids (something handgun hunters have been using for decades) a number of years ago as they much more reliably track straight in flesh and impart a whole lot more damage than a round nose. I would rather face a large game animal with my Punch bullet loads in one of my revolvers than any rifle with round nosed solids. Lousy bullet design/tech resulted in ever bigger Nitro Express calibers to increase performance on large game.
     
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  12. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    It's not. They're way too light for their very large diameter to penetrate well. Even the Brenneke Black Magic is very low. They rely mostly on myth & legend. Fosters have an SD less than that of a round ball, to put things in perspective. So yes, if you have only one shot, you're better off with a Brown Bess than a 12ga pump with Foster slugs.
     
  13. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    The problem with most shotgun slugs is that they are of too soft an alloy. If they were more "hardcast" they would work markedly better.
     
  14. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    The problem with shotgun slugs is that their shape is terrible and they're too light for their diameter. The Brenneke is hardcast and it still doesn't catch up to .44/.45 revolver slugs over 300gr.
     
  15. ChCx2744

    ChCx2744 Member

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    What about 30 rounds of 7.62x39 from an AK? :D

    +1 on the 12ga with slugs
     
  16. Alaskan Ironworker

    Alaskan Ironworker Member

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    3” mag 12 gauge 1 ounce slugs are quite adequate and very well proven.
     
  17. 94045

    94045 Member

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    I was thinking some difference existed between the Brenneke Black Magic and the Special Forces Maximum Barrier Penetration Slugs that made the later superior but Im a long ways from certain as it's been years since I've seen the data.

    Does some reason exist why we couldn't use a rifled slug barrel and a sabboted round in the shotgun? I know the Woodleigh 400 grain .423 Solid will pass through an Elephant on a quartering shot so I can't imagine it couldn't pentrate a big bear.

    PS I accidentally posted a similar topic in Rifles as I didn't know this one was here. Although it was more about a stopping caliber and not a hunting caliber (Their is a reason a PH has a 0.577 and the client has a .375 H&H when hunting in Africa).
     
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  18. 94045

    94045 Member

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    Forgot....

    I'm leaning toward a Browning BAR .300 Win Mag converted to .416 Ruger as stopping rifle for large Coasties.
     
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  19. Tradmark

    Tradmark Member

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    Well that would do it!
     
  20. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Yeah, these rounds out of a 24" Bbl. really burrow in.




    GR
     
  21. IWAC

    IWAC Member

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    Ain't many problms a man can't fix with &1,000 and a 30-06!
     
  22. TheCpaNextDoor

    TheCpaNextDoor Member

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    Glock 20 10mm for a handgun. Or .308+ on a rifle.

    I had a giant revolver. Once you need a chest rig you end up thinking *** - this is 70% of a rifle but not one.

    G20 or big rifle/12 gauge
     
  23. MaxP

    MaxP Member

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    Nah, I have numerous “big revolvers” that I would rather have in a defensive situation than a diminutive .308.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  24. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    Perception is everything. You would think all bear-capable revolvers were like the 5lb Century Arms .45/70 or 8 3/8" X-frames. A loaded G20 is 40oz. Same as a 629MG. A 4 5/8" Bisley with loads that will fully penetrate any bear that walks is a measly 5oz more. Or about the same as a loaded G40.

    No, the above is one of myriad deflections used when the real reason is that folks either can't or won't commit to learning how to handle a big bore revolver. Rather than being honest about choosing less capable equipment, they deflect with nonsense about capacity or weight, to convince themselves and others that they're not really compromising.

    The 10mm is not and never will be a proper bear cartridge. Capacity and wishful thinking will never make up for it.
     
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  25. Alaskan Ironworker

    Alaskan Ironworker Member

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    I dont understand the need for a “chest rig”.
    A ruger super redhawk can be comfortably worn on the hip, and there arent many revolvers out there that weight much more than that. Maybe the x frames, but not by much. Tighten up your belt a notch! Just my opinion
     
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