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What gun suitable for defensive use?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Younggunner, Aug 13, 2009.

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  1. Younggunner

    Younggunner Member

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    good day everybody
    i'm looking for a good all around gun for ranch use and defense if needed. i'm fourteen and left at the house a lot so just in case. i'd like to be ready.
    I currently own a remington 870 in 20 gauge and i have a remington 270 700 adl bolt rifle. i would like a nice semi auto to use. the fact that i am left handed seems to be the biggest problem but with my 270 i have learned to shoot right handed. i'm currently looking into an m1 carbine and that seems like a good gun and since i'm paying out of my own pocket, the price won't kill me. i can't afford an ar 15 but are there any other good semi's that would fit the bill??
    Thanks
    Daniel
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2009
  2. ScareyH22A

    ScareyH22A Member

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    Wow, I wish I owned firearms when I was 14. Good for you! Maybe a Mini-14?
     
  3. Younggunner

    Younggunner Member

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    i've fired the mini 14 once or twice. i don't like the fact that after a few magazines my accuracy diminishes. at 50 yards i'll take my 20 gauge with deer slugs before i take a mini. but thats just my opinion.
     
  4. AKElroy

    AKElroy Member

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    Daniel--What do your parents suggest? At 14, this needs to be a family decision. A lot goes in to a defensive plan, and the gun is only a part of that. A dangerous part if not worked into an overall protection plan. I commend you for considering how you should protect yourself & I hope you work with your family to design a plan that keeps you safe.

    Without a proper plan, you run a risk of leaving yourself vulnerable to things you may not have considered, and just as bad, the risk of hurting those you love. This is just my .02, but I would suggest no gun for SD without a plan & plenty of practice. Even then, this is a heavy load for a 14 year old to carry, one I would never impose on my kids until they were much older.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  5. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    +1 to what AKElroy says.

    Get a WASR-10(Romanian AK-47) for 300 bucks and a case of cheap ammo.

    But make sure you can effectively fire it left handed first.
     
  6. Younggunner

    Younggunner Member

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    my parents say that if it got "bad" we would be with one of my friends families and my neighbor who is in the FBI. so i would be with a gun. just in case i needed it. strictly for defense. not the kids dumb dream. of rambo with the ak and bullets across his chest. i would be worried about the carrying things though. i'm currently 5'8 and 200 pounds so i think i could do well with maybe 80 pound pack? at least that what happened with football practice.
     
  7. Younggunner

    Younggunner Member

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    forgot to mention. my dad spent 20 years in the navy as a medic. and my friends dad is currently a LEO. so i would be the back up.
     
  8. ByAnyMeans

    ByAnyMeans Member

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    Alot to influence the decision. If you dad has rifles and reloads for them you may want something in a common caliber such as .308 or 30-30. A 30-30 is a great rifle and low key compared to an AK. That said I have an AK so I'm in no way knocking it as a SHTF gun.
     
  9. Birdmang

    Birdmang Member

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    I'm having a hard time believing your age!

    Idk if its because forums are full of adults who type like kids or what?!

    I would get a marlin lever action 30-30 or an sks.
     
  10. Younggunner

    Younggunner Member

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    My dad has only two guns. He has a 30-06 and a single shot 12 gauge. His theory is that if you can't kill somebody with a good shot of 00 buck you deserve to die. I personally like the 5 shot capacity of my shotgun and the clackity clack sound it makes. He doesn't reload so that can be a problem but my neighbor and my friends dad both reload. If I could have a true bug out rifle I would like an ak. But as it is. I trust the accuracy of the m1 carbine I'm saving for over the sights on a cheap rommy. What would you pick? If I get the m1, I will save money so that I can get an ultimak folding stock and a metal ventilated handgaurd. That would be my choice unless I could find a decent AK.
     
  11. AStone

    AStone Member

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    Younggunner, Daniel, I commend not only your inquiry and responses, but your writing skills. You do both better with both than a lot of adults around here. :scrutiny:

    I second the idea of a Marlin .30-30. (Click on "levers" in my sig line for one of the longest discussions about the Marlin 336 on the web.) It'll do great for what you have in mind (back up, defense) but also serve you extremely well as a hunting rifle. You can even "download it" with light bullets (down to 100 gr or less) for small game, if you or your dad handloads.

    One can also shorten it to 16.5" if you want more of a ... well, never mind. I won't go there.

    Keep up the good posts, and keep us posted about what you decide.

    Nem
     
  12. conw

    conw Member

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    The M1 carbine is not considered accurate over long distances. I'm not experienced with either type of gun, but I doubt it's going to be more accurate than most AKs that are functioning properly.

    The s almost definitely won't hit the fan in the way you're describing, and you'd be better off using your 270 if it did and you were somehow justified in picking people off at long distances. Otherwise, you still shouldn't ever need to engage people defensively past say 30 yards, and that's a huge stretch.

    I am partial to the Hi-point 9mm 995 carbine, and it's way cheaper than anything you listed. $200 or so. Nicely accurate for practical purposes out to 75 yards for most shooters, definitely more if you get the .40 version. Ammo is cheaper.

    I think your needs are covered by your current two guns, but if you want a fun gun that does something your current two don't do that well (engagement at moderate distances...fast follow-up shots), look into the HP carbine.
     
  13. Younggunner

    Younggunner Member

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    Nematocyst-thankyou and my main problem with the lever gun as much as I love shooting my friends marlin, is the fact that ammo is very expensive for 30-30. I pay the same price for my 270. And the m1 costs $20 for 50 rounds. Which is better than $20 for 20 of the previous 2 big rounds listed.
    Conwict- I handled the highpoint at the last gunshow I went to. I didn't like the fact that it looked like my little brothers air soft gun, if I had to have a weapon and expect to intimidate my attacker, I wouldn't want him to think it was fake which could cause a fire fight which would mist likely end up with one of us dead. And if I wanted a 9mm carbine, I would go with a kel tec sub 2000 that took glock magazines. I could then use my neighbors extra magazines for his glock, whereas the high point only takes highpoint mags, that is my understanding. And I'm afraid that if I get an ak. Obama can take away imported 7.62x39 with a stroke of a pen. This leaves me with the m1 carbine or a 357 mag levergun.
     
  14. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    Regarding a SHTF gun, I'd suggest a Saiga 308 or a Remington 870. These are proven, rugged guns that will work dirty. You're big enough to handle these guns without a problem. Also, I have these guns and really like them.

    It's a good discussion, even though I don't believe you're 14. By the way, I noticed that you suddenly learned perfectly how to use the Shift key in Post #10...good job. ;)
     
  15. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Younggunner, which Mini-14s did you shoot before? The new ones (last year or so) are considerably more accurate than their predecessors for a variety of reasons.


    As for the folks who are chiding this young man, it is not really our place to tell him not to worry about this. Assuming he is telling the truth, his parents obviously feel that he is old enough and, more importantly, responsible enough to handle firearms safely, and use them effectively should the need arise. That's enough reason for me dismiss the notion that he's "too young" or "too immature" for a SHTF gun or inclusion in an emergency family plan.



    Maturity level and English skills weigh far more heavily into a poster's perceived age than actual age. :)
     
  16. jakemccoy

    jakemccoy Member

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    If your intruder has a gun and it's a rural environment, there could easily be a situation where engaging that intruder at 100+ yards may be justified easily. We are talking SHTF here, not normal civility.
     
  17. ThrottleJockey72

    ThrottleJockey72 member

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    Somethings fishy, I call BS. How is a $1000 M1 more affordable than a $1000 AR? And where does a 14yo that can't even legally have a job yet get that kind of money?
     
  18. razorback2003

    razorback2003 Member

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    Get a good 22 rifle

    If your parents are ok with you owning firearms, buy plenty of ammunition and practice. I also suggest a quality 22LR rifle for fun. Nothing beats a good 22LR rifle for practice. Centerfire ammo gets pretty expensive for someone who can't drive alone yet. A brick of 22 and a good bolt action or semi auto rifle will go a long way to teaching you marksmanship. If you don't hunt, I suggest that you get into small game hunting with a 22. Take up squirrel and rabbit hunting. It will teach you how to slip through the woods and take game. All the guns in the world don't do you a lot of good if you can't slip out in the woods to eat in the event you get hungry or you don't have a job and need a meal. You can hunt economically with a 22. In a pinch (not legal in most states) you can kill small deer with head shots with a 22 rifle. Hunting teaches a lot of things...from butchering animals...to the cooking of game....to how to outsmart wild animals.
     
  19. JohnnyOrygun

    JohnnyOrygun Member

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    When I was his age, I thought along the same lines. I only had my 10/22 at the time, but I knew how to use my Dad's guns. So I think it would be better to answer his questions then try to belittle him or think he is a troll. He comes across articulate and his answers and thoughts seem accurate, his point about ammo being $20 for 20 rounds for most larger centerfire rounds is pretty accurate. Although 30-30 seems more like $10-$12 for 20 rounds.

    As to my answer to your question Younggunner, I chose a 580 series Mini 14. I just got it this last week so I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but from everything I hear, they are more accurate. Another thought might be one of Remington's Pump action rifles in 223 or 308, they can use AR mags (at least the 223's) and since you are already familiar with pump action shotguns, the manual of arms would be basically the same.

    Anyhow good luck and don't let some of theses old fogies get you down.

    JohnnyOrygun

    BTW for some of you naysayers, my Dad was in Japan getting ready to be deployed to Korea at 15. Yes he was large for his age and managed to trick the Army when he enlisted. If I remember the story right he went down and signed up for the draft and they didn't really check him out very carefully, after all who in their right mind would sign up for the draft if they weren't draft age?! Then went to the Army "recruiters" office and said "...I might as well volunteer now, rather then wait to get drafted..." he had his draft registration paperwork and they took him in, he was 14 at the time. Now his reason for joining up wasn't because he was blood thirsty, but Grandma was a widow and he wanted to help her financially, so he joined up. It was only after Grandma found out what he had done that she got him out of the Army before he got sent to Korea. My Dad lived a very interesting life... very and I don't know all the stories, he never told me everything before he passed away... He was sort of embarrassed about some of his adventures.

    So not all 14 year old's are immature, some are mature beyond their age and can think for themselves.

    Sorry for the thread drift and the rather long (for me anyhow) post. Now back to your regular thread.

    JohnnyOrygun
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  20. MarineOne

    MarineOne Member

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    He's 14, and as he's stated, 5 foot 8 and 200 pounds. For comparison, my son is 13 (14 in December) and is 5 foot 6 and 135.


    I think someone jumped into a box of Honey Buns and is suffering from a terminal sugar rush.

    While I've talked to both my kids about shooting, firearm safety, and what to do if an intruder enters the home, I have yet to discuss a SHTF scenario with him because he's got a few years before he needs to know.

    And if the neighbors are a LEO and an FBI agent, why is he going to be backup? Are there no other adults (even young adults) that can fill this role?


    Sorry, I'm calling BS.



    Kris
     
  21. RiverwinoIA

    RiverwinoIA Member

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    "If the SHTF happens, one untrained teen carrying a semi-auto gun isn't going to save anybody from an group of people who mean business."

    Say he hears a firefight start while away from home/camp, sneaks in for a look, and happens to be on the flank of 'the group of people who mean business'. Assuming he can shoot his semiauto rifle well and keep a cool head, he will certianly have an effect on the outcome of the fight, regardless of any formal combat training he has had.
     
  22. TheProf

    TheProf Member

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    You're 14...and thinkng about guns? Now I'm sure that many a fourteen year olds have been saved with a handgun.....but........ consider the possibility that you may not have the experience/maturity to have a firearm at this age (for self-defense). This is different from going out hunting or target practice. You will be making life and death situation.

    Those of us here that are over 40 can look back at our 20s and say, "what was I thinking then?" Now compare this to age 14. Don't take this as an insult. It was not meant to be. The point is... you may end up doing something with your gun that you may regret later.

    There are many other things that you can work on (in terms of self-defense) at this young age: evasion, de-escalation techniques, escape, etc.
     
  23. Duelist

    Duelist Member

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    Well, if your parents allow, I would say a left-handed Stag Arms AR-15.

    I would stop worrying so much about tshtf and looking a little more at the girls though. Enjoy high school. You only get to go through it once, so have as much fun as you can.
     
  24. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    If the internet and THR had existed when I was 14, I'd probably have made a thread just like this.

    The only right answer is... "Go talk to your dad and mom about this".
     
  25. Norinco982lover

    Norinco982lover Member

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    Saiga in .223 (convert it). It's cheaper than an AR and will last forever.
     
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