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What gun would you give Bond?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Billy Shears, Mar 19, 2013.

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  1. golden

    golden Member

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    Both guns

    Actually, in the book, "Dr. NO", Bond was issued a WALTHER PPK in .32ACP and a S&W .38 Special. After that, he just carried the PPK.

    The PPK was the only real choice after WWII, when the books were writen.

    The excellent pre-WWII pocket guns that were made in the U.S., like the COLT 1903 Pocket Hammerless in .32ACP and the COLT 1908 (the same gun in .380ACP) and the REMINGTON model 51 in .380ACP were all too large for deep concealment and had only a single action trigger. THey were also out of production.

    The much more compact and lighter BROWNING 1910 would be a very good pistol for pocket or concealment use, but is also single action and so requres it to be carried with the safety on or with an empty chamber.
    They also had the GUTTERSNIPE sights and these do not appeal to everyone.

    Not a very appealing situation when you have the WALTHER PPK being as small as the BROWNING 1910 and having a (HEAVY) double action trigger that can safely drop the hammer after the slide has been racked.
    Despite that heavy trigger, you can shoot decent groups with a PPK.

    The nice looking and sleek MAUSER HSc was likewise out of production and I have read several times, that they were not as durable as the PP series.

    The very nice SAUER model 38 was also out of production.

    Also, the BERETTA'S were all single action at this time, though the model 70 pistols were slim and light.

    Also, all of these guns have poor sights.

    The reason, that BOND would carry a .32ACP is that it was the standard caliber in most European countries for police use at that time.
    Another reason would be the recoil and also, there was little, if any hollow point ammo available.
    The first time, I shot a PPK in .32ACP, the recoil surprised me. It can be a kicker in .380ACP.

    Skeeter SKELTON, a very popular gun writer in the 1970's, was one of the few who boosted the PPK pistols for carrying. He would often carry one as a backup instead of a 5 shot .38 Special.


    I would think that in real life, today, an agent would want access to several guns. The guns would be chosen based on need. A PPK for pocket or ankle carry and a P99 (or GLOCK 26 or 19, SIG 228 ir 229) when they are in uniform or in a protection detail and covered carry, not concealed is required.

    Jim
     
  2. golden

    golden Member

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    Second that sig 232

    I would take the SIG 232 over the PPK, if I were choosing guns made today.

    I love the nights sights on it.

    Jim
     
  3. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    I'm thinking 232 Stainless or 239 SAS... they still have the looks and the 239 comes in bigger calibers (9x19, .357 Sig, .40S&W)

    I think it would be cool to see Bond with a .357 Sig but then, that's just me... :D
     
  4. Coop45

    Coop45 Member

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    007 doesn't need no stinking 9mm.
     
  5. Billy Shears

    Billy Shears Member

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    The PPS is about the best suggestion I've heard so far. A lot of people here are really not understanding the concept of a full size pistol being too big for most of the time Bond would need to carry. By all means, on some missions, when the situation or attire allows, a bigger gun would be preferable, and as I said, Bond actually did that in the movies and the books. (He actually kept a .44 magnum in the glove compartment of his Bentley in the books, IIRC.) But for most places he goes, it has to be something smaller. The PPS is about the same size as the PPK -- only just barely longer, taller and thicker -- and is in a much better caliber for defensive use. Pity it's so damn dog ugly.
     
  6. Armedleprechaun

    Armedleprechaun Member

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    Walther PPQ or Sig M11A1.
     
  7. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    .455 Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver.

    rc
     
  8. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

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    I'm aware of that. The Daniel Craig Bond carried a 1st-gen P99 in Casino Royale as well.

    I just think the compact version (P99cAS) is more appropriate than the full-size P99 for a secret agent like Bond.

    The bottom line is that Walther pistols are just synonymous with Bond. To suggest any other brand is just blasphemy.
     
  9. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Member

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    Browning Hi-Power...or ASAI One Pro.
     
  10. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    With all the technological goodies that Q came up with, I am sure they could have given Bond a way to conceal a Browning Hi Power. They aren't a very big pistol, and with regards to the Colt 1908, who cares if it wasn't in production anymore? I would think the Crown could acquire as many as they wanted. Proper training could overcome the single action requirement, and many carried these pistols in concealment and some still do.
     
  11. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    I think a Beretta 85. An 84 would be too many rounds for Bond, given whatever he carries doesn't run dry.
     
  12. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    That would be super cool! I'm not sure if I see Bond as much of a revolver guy but it would be pretty cool if he busted out the Auto Revolver to blast some bad guys... :cool:
     
  13. Billy Shears

    Billy Shears Member

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    Even Q can't make a big gun into a small one. And I know how big I Hi Power is; I carry one. It's significantly bigger than a PPK. It's a full size gun. I can conceal it under most of the things I wear, but occasionally I have to switch it out for my Remington Model 51. Why? Because sometimes I can't conceal it well enough, and I need something smaller. That's what compact guns are for.

    How many times do I have to point out that a full size gun is not appropriate here? I'm not sure why some people have so much trouble getting their heads around the concept that a deep concealment gun needs to compact. Think about it: Bond carried a PPK, not a PP, and a PP is a lot smaller than a full size gun like a Hi Power. And the PPK was still chosen over the PP because the PP was not small enough.

    Try wearing the tailored suits and such that a man like Bond favors sometime. A full size gun will not conceal as well you think under those, especially when you button up the jacket. If it were that easy to make a big gun disappear inconspicuously, there wouldn't be so many compact guns on the market these days.

    Sure they do, but most agencies stopped acquiring single action pistols once double action ones came out. I'm not aware of any SA designs which became a big commercial success after the DA designs debuted. Most armorers prefer DA designs. Any gun issued to Bond would likely conform to that specification. And why would a government buy an out of production design that may have limited support and parts availability when they can buy a current production gun that serves as well and better fits their concept of an ideal carry gun?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  14. snakeman

    snakeman Member

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    Ok ppq!
     
  15. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    One of the good things about being an old fart, is that you can say you have been there and done that. First Flemming wrote 11 books and 2 short stories (I have read them all in my youth) and there have been 5 additional writters since he died that have made up the 24 + films. And yes I had a Beretta 25, a Walther PPK and an AR-7. One of the first things you learn as a spy is not to carry a firearm, it is the fastest way to give away who and what you are. You should have one in a hidout for emergencies, but you are required to use your brain not your sharpshooter skills to get the job done, intellegence is your task (that's information) not body cournt (Special Ops - Body Count) but MI5 and MI6 are about intellegence (quick in and quick out without letting them know you were there) not special ops (best left to the army with their big weapons).

    But since this is all Hollywood and fantasy why not give him a Desert Eagle in 50 AE and blast the daylights out of everything, short of that a Austin Martin with twin 30's, a blast sheald, rockets under the grill, oil slicks from the back and an ejector seat to get rid of the mother-in-law would be acceptable.

    Jim
     
  16. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

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    PPK
    The man knows the gun.
    The man knows the round.
    The man knows his limitations.
    The man knows the combined capabilities.
    The man spends inordinate periods at inordinate frequency in tuxedos!
    PPK
     
  17. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The man also spends inordinate periods at inordinate frequency in bed with beautiful women too!

    Also a movie fantasy, like his inordinate skill with a PPK.

    rc
     
  18. jeff-10

    jeff-10 Member

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    As other people stated, a Sig Sauer P239. In 9mm.
     
  19. golden

    golden Member

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    Last book

    PILOT,

    Have you ever fired a COLT 1903 or 1908. The safety lever is VERY SMALL. I have shot several hundred rounds through a 1903 and really like the gun, but the safety worries me. It is very easy to slip off the lever. Not good for a SAVE YOUR LIFE SHOT. It is also much larger than a PPK, I would not consider it for a concealed gun if I had access to a PPK or SIG 232.
    It is also heavy, weighing a pound and a half when loaded.

    All the other reasons why a non-military, government agency would not buy a USED, OUT OF PRODUCTION GUN should be obvious. They never buy anything used for there own issue. They just don't.

    In the novels writen in the 1980's and early 1990's, BOND spends a fair amount of time trying to hide his gun. That was when author John GARDNER had him driving a SAAB Turbo (his own car) and keeping a RUGER Super Blackhawk in a hidden compartment. It was later replaced by a Redhawk. Gardner knew guns.

    Later on, BOND carried an H&K P7 squeezer pistol and then a SEVENTREES ASP (a custom made, cut down S&W 39).

    In the last book by Jeffrey DEAVER, BOND does not have a gun. He only gets to carry one when on assignment and goes through all sorts of effort to be armed on the sly with a WALTHER PPS.

    Most of the time real spies are unarmed. Access to knowledge is their goal, however sometimes not.
    The CIA agents sent into AFGHANISTAN, carried AK47's, MAKAROV pistols and in some cases, M-9 BERETTAS.
    According to the author of, "THE HORSE SOLDIERS", a history of this campaign by the CIA and SPECIAL FORCES, the CIA guys did not carry enough spare ammo, if any.

    For protection details, hiding a gun can be of secondary importance. A friend of mine carries a SIG 228 and when he isdoing protection, often carries an UZI. His agency does not care if you can tell he is armed, as long as it is not out in the open.

    Jim
     
  20. Derry 1946

    Derry 1946 Member

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    Jim234 and Golden nailed it, IMHO. Remember too that the initial conceit in the books was that the tuxedo-wearing casino-dwelling playboy was Bond's cover to infiltrate criminal organizations in the swanky set, not his actual identity. In "real life" he was a functionary, a career civil servant. George Smiley is closer to reality, but makes for more modest box office. Bond is the lucrative franchise. But in his playboy disguise, it's hard to imagine he would be armed. As for what gun he might have squirreled away for a rainy day, a 1911 would present a viable combination of hideability, semi-concealability, reliability, ease of finding ammo and smithing, durability, etc. As for what looks good being drawn from Armani, I still think the PPK has it.
     
  21. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    Ah but perfect fantasies for a teenage lad :)
     
  22. Billy Shears

    Billy Shears Member

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    Actually, Bond would have favored British suits. He would have worn something from Anderson Sheppard, Gieves & Hawkes, Kilgour, French & Stanbury, or one of the other Saville Row tailors. Connery's shirts, when he played Bond, came from Turnbull & Asser.

    A lot of Bond's bon vivant lifestyle came from Ian Fleming's own experience -- his family had some money, and that's how he himself lived. He also put in something of his own experience in British intelligence during the war, with a extremely healthy dose of dramatic license. Apparently even Bond's initial .25 came from that; apparently he carried one in Spain during the war (and never had to use it, pretty obiously).

    But again, for a modern update, the PPS is so close to the PPK's dimensions, I think it would be the best update; they're almost exactly the same size.
     
  23. Thompson9494

    Thompson9494 Member

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    CZ

    From what I've read so far I've gathered that Bond's gun needs to be:

    Concealable but not Tiny
    Sleek and sexy
    Reliable
    European

    So I'll throw the CZ 75 Compact stainless steel (or nickel) into the mix. It's classically European, is small enough to conceal, but powerful enough to stand up in a gun fight, is flashy with the stainless or nickel, very reliable and something I could see Bond carrying. I'm sorry but I cannot see Bond carrying a Kimber or a 1911 of any kind. He can pick one up off a dead guy and shoot a few more henchmen with it but Bond's gun has to be something else, just my opinion. 1911 is still a fantastic firearm but it is not a Bond gun.
     
  24. Captain33036

    Captain33036 Member

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    Whatever Bond carries has to be classic and iconic. Think Rolex and Omega watches.

    A couple members have already mentioned the incomparable, SIG P228. Now updated (and quite a bit more costly) as the M11A1 (marketing genius).
     
  25. VA27

    VA27 Member

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    It's modern, it's small, it's European...it's the ZVI KEVIN in 9mmMak! It's built under license in the USA as the Micro Desert Eagle.

    I wish they would make a few in Mak for the US market...and go back to the ZVI slide design. It looks better to me.
     
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