What hangun to pair with 30-30 lever rifle?

[AStone]

Really informative thread here. I'm learning lots at a good time. (This question is on my list to address soon as I make some changes to my kit.)

On an Idaho elk/deer scouting trip early last Fall, I carried my Marlin .30-30 and Ruger B.H. .45 Colt. Because I was not hunting but scouting, I had a light day pack (not pictured) in case of an emergency "overnighter."

LW, please don't take this as criticism; I trust you had your reasons. But I'm curious: if you weren't hunting, just scouting and just needed critter protection, why tote the rifle, also? That .45 C would take care of anything (and more) that the .30-30 would, right?

Thanks to several of you for complements on my centerfire/rimfire combo strategy.
(I have occasional moments of clarity even if they tend to be infrequent. )

I also understand Quoheleth's reasoning:

But, if you're hunting where critters roam that can bite you OR you are in thick underbrush where a snap shot with a rifle may be difficult (i.e., after hogs), I would suggest a .357 Magnum revolver, in the 4"-6" length. Has enough power to potentially save your bacon and can be downloaded with .38 Wadcutters if you want to pot a rabbit or squirrel for supper.

That seems reasonable, too.

OK, one question about .22 mag that might be slightly OT.
(If so, we can carry it elsewhere.)

Arfin wrote:

Guess I'm gonna hafta get me a Single Six and keep some .22 WMR on tap.

Quoheleth also mentioned .22 mag.

I'm leaning towards a Bearcat for this task, which is .22 LR only. I'm interested in Bearcat for it's light weight. (I backpack a lot, and ounces count for me; Bearcat saves 8 oz over regular Single Six.)

So my question: for this job, when one is pairing a rimfire revolver with a .30-30, what's the advantage of a .22 mag over .22 LR? What can one kill (that one would want to eat) with mag that can't be done with .22 LR or .30-30 especially w/ latter loaded with some light bullet rnds?

Nem

 

[HardShell]

... I'm leaning towards a Bearcat for this task, which is .22 LR only. I'm interested in Bearcat for it's light weight. (I backpack a lot, and ounces count for me; Bearcat saves 8 oz over regular Single Six.)...

The Bearcat is also much smaller in every regard -- unless you have small hands, it might not be practical for you. Have you shot one?

 

[Leanwolf]

NEMATOCYST - "LW, please don't take this as criticism; I trust you had your reasons. But I'm curious: if you weren't hunting, just scouting and just needed critter protection, why tote the rifle, also? That .45 C would take care of anything (and more) that the .30-30 would, right? "

Don't take it that way a'tall. I understand your point.

The reason I carried that combo in the picture is because in that area where I was scouting, there were some mighty rough, steep canyonsides I sometimes wanted to climb, to see what was on the other side of that "far ridge."

(Note picture. This trail into the drainage is the "easy" part. That drainage meanders to the north another ten miles of rough country.)



Sometimes when scouting -- not always -- I will stash my rifle and day pack, and make the climb carrying just what is on my belt, plus a canteen and binocular. Up top, I do my scouting and perhaps in a couple hours or three, come back down and pick up my rifle and daypack.

It's remote where I scout. In three days scouting, I saw only one other person and he was quite a distance away.

BTW, what is in that black nylon pouch on the scabbard of my Ruana knife in the picture, plus what I always have in my pockets, would enable me to get through a night up there if I absolutely had too.

Other times, while on the side of a mountain I might have the rifle but it will be lying to the side while I use my binocular (two hands) to glass and glass. Then I'll move around some for more glassing. No matter I might be 50 or 75 yards from my rifle, I still always have the Blackhawk .45 Colt.

My selection of a rifle and/or sidearm really depends on location, time of year, and topography of the area I am attending.

Many times I've been known to carry a .22 pistol and a centerfire rifle, but on this trip, I wanted a bit more authority on my belt.

L.W.

 

[SeekHer]

The .22 LR and .22 WRM will both kill the same things just the mag at a little farther distance--IF FIRED IN A RIFLE but will make no noticeable difference (you may gain 10 yards) in a pistol other then a louder bang and muzzle flash...

You're handgun will only have between a 4" and 6" barrel maybe 7½", how much velocity will you garner from those lengths when the optimum burn for a .22 LR is 18" to 18½"...

What you will get is a harder hitting bullet and something like the CCI 40 gr HMR GamePoint J SP will give you 1,875 ft/sec velocity and 312 ft/lbs energy at muzzle (based on a 20" barrel) and a 30 gr Maxi-Mag TNT WRM will give you 2,200 ft/sec velocity and 322 ft/lbs energy at muzzle (because it's a lighter bullet)...

The LR rounds will give you 1,640 ft/sec velocity and 191 ft/lbs energy at muzzle for a .32 gr Stinger (based on an 18" barrel) and 1,465 ft/sec velocity and 183 ft/lbs energy at muzzle for a 40 gr Velocitor...

You're gaining velocity but more importantly you're gaining energy and combined they equal penetration and/or expansion and that's what kills...

 

[Jubjub]

I'd be pretty happy with one of the new .44 Special Blackhawks. They are all steel guns, and look very nice indeed.

If snakes are an issue, the Speer .44 shot capsules put out a pretty thick short range pattern. I load them with #8, and they hold 135 grains of shot, which is about 120 pellets in the shot I have.

 

[AStone]

Leanwolf, thanks. That makes sense, I think.

The Bearcat is also much smaller in every regard -- unless you have small hands, it might not be practical for you. Have you shot one?

Haven't even seen one yet, but a buddy and I are planning a field trip to our nearby (hour away) Sportsman's Warehouse to check them out with SBH & SRH.

And yes, I do have small hands, so that's an advantage.

 

[_N4Z_]

I did this. Originally I had a Beretta96 (.40) as my lone handgun. Also had a 336 30-30. Didn't like that combo.

The .40 got traded for a gp100 revolver (.357), which I soon began reloading for. Shortly after that I also began reloading 30-30.


And then another good thing that happened... I liked the Marlin so well that I decided to get another (1894c .357) to keep the 336 and myself company at the range.


It's like a big sloppy disgusting love story!

Think a Ruger Vaquero .357 may be in my future too.

 

[KenWP]

I have a adapter to shoot round balls in a 30-30 that uses green blank nail gun 22 shells. If you use red ones it leads up to much. Since we can't carry handguns up here it works for grouse and such.

 

[Glamdring]

Lots of interesting choices.

Leanwolf what loads were you using? Do you use the 30-30 for elk?

*****
I don't call my revolvers pistols. IMO the general term would be "handgun."
Handguns come in different types: revolver, pepperbox, single shot pistol, double pistol, repeating pistol, semi automatic pistol, (full)auto pistol. And there are others.

 

[Dr.Rob]

If I'm hunting big game I like a pistol that is a 'back up rifle' and legal for taking big game in my state.

Thats the whole reason I bought a 44 mag Vaquero. I had no illusions about it being a target pistol or long range hunter, I wanted something I could shoot an elk with at 50 feet or so. This happened to me I was packing out an elk quarter, ran into a cow elk with a cow elk tag IN MY POCKET and nothing but a .22 on my hip.

Just for 'predator control' or whatever... hand gun isn't really needed but I'd stick with a centerfire.

I've carried all manner of handguns in the woods while hunting.. a .22 Ruger Mark 2, a Colt Commander .45 ACP, a Colt 1917 .45 ACP, A Ruger Blackhawk 357, an FEG .380... but most times it's my Vaquero.

I hunted elk with a Marlin .30-30 for several years before getting a .30-06. I used Federal 170gr bullets.

 

[Oro]

Sometimes when scouting -- not always -- I will stash my rifle and day pack, and make the climb carrying just what is on my belt, plus a canteen and binocular. Up top, I do my scouting and perhaps in a couple hours or three, come back down and pick up my rifle and daypack.

This is why I disagreed above about the .22. My usage is quite a bit like yours, though I am not usually away from my "stash" so long. I will tie or leave my horse to graze then scout up ridges. I am only scouting passages and terrain, not game, so I am not taking as long. But it's quite similar; I'm leaving my "base" and alone. A large centerfire handgun is necessary.

My selection of a rifle and/or sidearm really depends on location, time of year, and topography of the area I am attending.

I do this regularly also, but have a tough time explaining it in forums. In coastal lowlands, I'll carry a 1911 style pistol in .45acp. Not because I think it's best, but I know it will do the job and I love them so much. But in the cascade foothills I won't carry less than a .357, and once on the Cascade Pacific Crest or east it's a .44 magnum. The threat changes with habitat and a knowledgeable user can feel free to adapt to it. I've lived all over the US. In most of the places I've lived, I'll walk comfortable in the wilderness with a Bowie knife. But not west of the Rocky's front range!

The problem I have not yet resolved is snakes. I didn't really worry about this until a day two summers' ago and when coming down an open mountain slope, we were gaiting along in the hot sun after a long hot ride and getting lost a few times in some tough woods and slopes. But now we were on the downslope, looking forward to the water and shade not 1/2 hour away. The biggest snake I'd seen in my life was spanning the trail, as thick as my arm and eight to ten feet long in front of us just a few feet ahead. I'm a Southerner/easterner by birth and raising; snakes aren't foreign to me but a monster this big was outside my ken. This freaked me out, to put it bluntly. I later gathered from reading this was probably a Western Diamondback Rattler. Oh man, this upset me to no end to think I had now to deal with this problem, too. I thought I had my black bear/grizzly/mountain lion strategies all worked out and was as prepared as possible. Wrong.

I have not found a scenario for loading snake shot in any gun that does not compromise me, other than a second handgun. And I'm just not that paranoid. Yet.

 

[sw282]

I dont like snakes either. I live in the South with rattlers, moccasons,etc. I have a 2" Smith snubby w/snake shot and a 4" 357 for the rest. Its not cumbersome to carry both. The snubby is carried in an iwb holster in front and the 4" is in a hi ride paddle type. Both are secured to my belt

 

[AStone]

I don't call my revolvers pistols. IMO the general term would be "handgun."

I agree with that. I find it helps avoid confusion to separate the terms "revolver" and "pistol" (as semi-auto). When I want to refer to both, I call them "handguns".

As for snakes, being a biologist who's lived in both the southeast and southwest, among mocassins, copperheads, prairie rattlers and diamondbacks, I have a different relationship to them I guess.

It's been a long, long time since I've killed a snake. (Since I was a kid.)

They play a major role in controlling rodents, which I dislike more than snakes (more likely to eat my food stores).

I just watch where I step very carefully. (I have a very strong search image.)

Only time I'd shoot one is if I ever wound up straddling one
because neither me or it were paying attention (or it couldn't rattle in time),
and backing away slowly is not an option.

I have a adapter to shoot round balls in a 30-30 that uses green blank nail gun 22 shells.

KenWP, if you click on "levers" in my sig line, it'll take you over to the "336 club". Search there on "buckshot". You'll find some posts by JustSayMo about how to load a .30-30 shell with a buckshot over a few gr of powder. Can be done in the field; good for small game.

 

[Leanwolf]

GLAMDRING - "Leanwolf what loads were you using? Do you use the 30-30 for elk?"

Glamdring, in that photo, in the cartridge holder are my handloads, 8.5 grains Unique and a Laser Cast 255 grains hard cast Keith style bullet. They are also in the Blackhawk. The loose cartridges are loaded with 21.0 grains 2400 and the bullet is a 250 grains Hornady half jacket lead hollowpoint. Both shoot to the same point of aim at 50 yards.

I have chronographed that 8.5 grains Unique load at 952 FPS from my 4 5/8" barreled Blackhawk. It hits very hard and will do just fine for most anything around here in the lower 48 States. Also an easy shooter for man and gun.

I have an older friend who has killed four Black bears here in Idaho using his old Colt Single Action 4 3/4" barrel in .45 Colt, using that exact load, other than he casts his own 255 grains Keith style bullets. He's also killed several Mule deer and a couple of elk with it, plus has shot quite a few Pecaries using it while quail hunting several times in Arizona. He bought his Colt S.A. new in 1957 and has used it ever since.

I haven't used my .30-30 on elk, as I carry a 'scoped rifle for elk. But if I had to, I'd not feel undergunned with the .30-30 out to 150 yards on an elk, using 170 grains bullets.

L.W.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Really informative thread here. I'm learning lots at a good time. (This question is on my list to address soon as I make some changes to my kit.)

<snip>

OK, one question about .22 mag that might be slightly OT.
(If so, we can carry it elsewhere.)

Arfin wrote:

Guess I'm gonna hafta get me a Single Six and keep some .22 WMR on tap.

Quoheleth also mentioned .22 mag.

I'm leaning towards a Bearcat for this task, which is .22 LR only. I'm interested in Bearcat for it's light weight. (I backpack a lot, and ounces count for me; Bearcat saves 8 oz over regular Single Six.)

So my question: for this job, when one is pairing a rimfire revolver with a .30-30, what's the advantage of a .22 mag over .22 LR? What can one kill (that one would want to eat) with mag that can't be done with .22 LR or .30-30 especially w/ latter loaded with some light bullet rnds?

Nem

My neighbor in Carson City had a Bearcat revolver.

The trigger on it is very narrow and tends to "bite" into the finger, and I found the pistol to be overall quite a bit smaller than what I'd consider comfortable.

After taking the time at a couple of shoppes to compare the Bearcat and Single Six side by side, I concluded that I'd prefer the Single Six, despite the extra weight.

The .22 mag thing is available simply because the Single Six comes with both a .22 LR and a .22 WMR cylinder, meaning that you can just swap cylinders in the field and shoot whatever is appropriate.

For squirrel/rabbit/running-lunch, the LR cylinder. For in-camp on-hip quick-access bigger-critter repellent, the .22 mag cylinder.

At least, that was my thinking.

 

[AStone]

Very interesting food for thought, Arfin. Thanks.

 

[Hammerson]

My favorite revolver for the field was stolen about a year ago. :banghead:
It was a blued 2 inch Ruger Speed Six; round butted with the original Ruger wood grips and the old purple-ish patina on the frame. I rescued this gun from a pawn shop for $150 almost 15 years ago. It had the smoothest action of any revolver that I have owned. They got it, 6 .357 Glazers (in the gun), 3 speedloaders full of 158 GRN SWHP, a holster and the Craftsman toolbag they were in.

Damn, I miss that gun.

 

[Boberama]

.30-30 American Derringer.

 

[FROGO207]

I will take the 45 LC revolver sometimes at other times I will take the 30 Carbine revolver. I have even taken the 30 carbine Blackhawk and my 30 M1 carbine as the shooting distance was so short that it was the best choice. Off topic for sure but I have reloaded the 30 carbine down to the point that the 115 GR Lasercast lead pills with blue dot will just pass through cardboard. They can be loaded to a reasonable level without punishing your hearing or going blind. I will shoot full power loads for effect however as it is really impressive to those that are not prepared for the bark.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Compass, Buck hunting knife (fixed blade), .30 WCF mod 94, 16 rounds .30-30, S&W mod 19, 16 rounds of .357 magnum and canteen. Oh. Forgot...And a zip-loc bag of peanuts.

 

[Malamute]

Interesting, if old thread.

Much depends on where you are, but the tone of the question is more what do we choose, not a reccomendation for the OP's area. For my neighborhood, I always, always, carry a 44 or 45 when out, no matter what rifle I have. With a 30-30, I load a .310"-.315" round ball and 3 grs Unique for small game. That load covers about anything a 22 does, is cheap to load, and with very little noise. A 22 pistol (I use the generic sense of the word) is handy if you don't live where grizzlies hang out.

 

[black_powder_Rob]

I know it is not even close to the norm, but i carry my 1851 c&b navy colt usually on my hip with my 336, i keep it stoked with about 30gr of BP. good for most small critters and doesn't destroy the meat.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When I carry my Marlin 30-30 I usually carry a Vaquero in .45 Colt. If I'm carrying my 1894C in .357 Magnum I also have a .357 Magnum Vaquero on my side. (only have to carry caliber of ammo that way)

 

[wheelgunslinger]

The problem I run into is the size of my hands. It's hard for me to employ a small frame weapon, even in the backcountry.

I've been carrying a revolver for years but am beginning to lean toward a .22 like a Buckmark as a sidearm with a levergun.

The extra weight, if you aren't on a horse, is a colossal pain when you choose a big bore or 357.

 

[Justin Holder]

For practicality I have to say a 22 magnum revolver.