What Happened to Remington & Winchester

OSP737

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I've been out of touch for a while, but lately it looks like the better Remington and Winchester rifles are hard to find. I remember Remington had some civil cases filed against them over their triggers, but I don't recall Winchester having problems lately. What happened? I miss their rifles, although last week I did pick up a nice pre64 model 70 in 243.
 
I've been out of touch for a while, but lately it looks like the better Remington and Winchester rifles are hard to find. I remember Remington had some civil cases filed against them over their triggers, but I don't recall Winchester having problems lately. What happened? I miss their rifles, although last week I did pick up a nice pre64 model 70 in 243.
It's all about economics. Quality costs money, if you want high level you have to order it or build it
 
I've been out of touch for a while, but lately it looks like the better Remington and Winchester rifles are hard to find. I remember Remington had some civil cases filed against them over their triggers, but I don't recall Winchester having problems lately. What happened? I miss their rifles, although last week I did pick up a nice pre64 model 70 in 243.
Is your name Rip Van Winkle :rofl:? Winchester has been dead to me for so long I cannot even remember. Remington died in 2019 and the assets sold off to various companies. The trademark Remington and all of the ammunition line and factory was sold to Vista Outdoors now that undergoing some changes. The guns went to another holding company that pays Vista for the Remington trademark best I know. And Marlin thank God was sold to Ruger out of the court proceedings for $30M and are now being produced in North Carolina at a quality not seen in decades if ever before.
 
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Winchester was bought out in 1980 by the "United States Repeating Arms Company" and had USRAC stamped on their guns for a few years after that. At some point around 2000 they were sold to FN and the old New Haven factory was closed in 2006. No Winchesters were produced until 2008. For a few years they were made in South Carolina at the FN factory where military rifles are produced. They didn't really have the floor space for them so production was moved to the FN factory in Portugal about 10-12 years ago.

Remington held on by a thread for years before finally being bought out just a few years ago. Their 870 shotgun had minor cosmetic and QC issues that were easily correctable. But their rifles and other products have been spotty for years. Some good enough, some really bad.

The trigger lawsuits date back to the 1960's but until the internet Remington managed to keep the problem pretty quiet. They settled over 100 lawsuits to individuals out of court with non-disclosure statements so most shooters never knew. More recently there were some class action lawsuits that finally forced Remington to address the issue and the general public became aware of the problems.

I really do think this was what killed Remington. They spent millions, maybe billions, over the last 60 years defending themselves in lawsuits and paying off people instead of using that money to build better guns and for R&D.
 
What happened is various circumstances in quality control, management, and various litigation made those manufacturers no longer viable. But that's ok- Ruger is taking the industry by storn, and even making some of the designs from companies that went belly-up. From what I've heard, they made some of the products better than when the old companies were doing it- along with all of the other great products that have 100% Ruger DNA.
 
The trigger lawsuits date back to the 1960's but until the internet Remington managed to keep the problem pretty quiet. They settled over 100 lawsuits to individuals out of court with non-disclosure statements so most shooters never knew. More recently there were some class action lawsuits that finally forced Remington to address the issue and the general public became aware of the problems.

I really do think this was what killed Remington. They spent millions, maybe billions, over the last 60 years defending themselves in lawsuits and paying off people instead of using that money to build better guns and for R&D.
While the product liability lawsuits on the 700 were a problem, I think it was miniscule compared with Cerberus and their appalling and purposeful mismanagement. They saddled Remington with debt and after Sandy Hook tried to sell off all their firearm holdings.
 
Is your name Rip Van Winkle :rofl:? Winchester has been dead to me for so long I cannot even remember. Remington died in 2019 and the assets sold off to various companies. The trademark Remington and all of the ammunition line and factory was sold to Vista Outdoors now that undergoing some changes. The guns went to another holding company that pays Vista for the Remington trademark best I know. And Marlin thank God was sold to Ruger out of the court proceedings for $30M and are now being produced in North Carolina at a quality not seen in decades if ever before.
They are experiencing some growing pains. My local gunsmith has had 3 through his shop that physically would not function and I sent mine back because the front sight was canted. When they returned it they said they fixed the front sight AND the block/lugs in the action. Which I thought was weird. So I’m a little disappointed but not like boomer levels of upset where I make some weird post about never buying a Ruger again. Just inspect the rifle before purchase.
 
Since I was born in Ilion, grandmother packed firearms into crates during WWII. My grandfather and uncle retired from ”the Arms” as it was called locally. Their purchase of Marlin and other things brought about their demise. Marlin was a basket case. Equipment older than those who operated it. Sabotaged by previous operators. One has 220 electric connected to the frame of the machine. I think Remington was done in by bad management and a little malfeasance on the side. Nothing but rumors and heresy but some might be based on truth. Got a new Remarms 870. It’s nice.
 
Many companies no longer are run by the people that make things but by investment companies that are only interested in maximum profits. Some of those companies exploit name brands by producing a cheaper product without the quality the brand is built on. Or some are bought simply to eliminate competition or liquidate for cash. Some investors actually want to produce a good product. Some want to promote a social agenda. Buyer beware.
 

Remington filed for bankruptcy in July, 2020 and its assets were sold by the courts in September 2020 to JJE, Vista, Ruger , Roundhill Group (the new RemArms) and others.
In February 2022, the Sandy Hook families settled with the original Remington insurers for $73 million.
 
The quest for $$ can be the undoing of any corporation. Guns, like hand tools, can last for generations with minimal care. Longer if cared for well. Lots of gun makers have folded and been absorbed elsewhere, Craftsman and other tool brands have moved production to cheaper lands and/or have suffered a similar fate.

Sometimes it gets kind of hard to get repeat business for these guys when their niche purchase doesn’t have planned obsolescence or replacement built in (like cars, refrigerators or washing machines today).

Stay safe.
 
PLCAA doesn't protect firearm manufacturers from product liability lawsuits. It protects manufacturers and dealers from civil suits brought by the misuse or criminal use of the products.


FAET began in 1919, 10% on handguns, 11% on everything else.
Firearms are not the only product that is charged an excise tax.

While the basic design might not change, the material used often does and newer methods of manufacturing allow better fit and function.


So........knives, watches, coins, pens, guitars don't count? I can think of dozens of durable products that people collect.
 
While the product liability lawsuits on the 700 were a problem, I think it was miniscule compared with Cerberus and their appalling and purposeful mismanagement. They saddled Remington with debt and after Sandy Hook tried to sell off all their firearm holdings.
This, in a nutshell. Cerberus absolutely ruined any chance that Remington had. What they did to that iconic American company should have been criminal and prosecutable IMHO.
 
I talked to an ex Remington engineer who now works making cartridges, about changes in firearms design.

About the year 2000, firearm companies took a good look at how much use their firearms were getting, and when it came to bolt guns, they came to the conclusion, the customer was not shooting that many rounds. And that the customer wanted cheap rifles. So weapon design is emphasizing price point over durability, maintainability. The customer gets something that goes bang for the least price.

Designs such as the pre 64 M70 and Rem M700 were based on considerations such as the barrel being shot out and replaced, trigger components lasting basically forever, etc, etc. Pre 64 M70 were an expensive rifle to build in its day, the Remington M700 cost less to make, but both are still expensive in comparison to the designs since 2000.

If you want more, you can still pay more. But that is not the market trend.
 
I have heard that the latest version of the Remington 700 is a good rifle. It's a great design. Everyone that I have owned has been very accurate. A guy I hunt with has his grandfathers Winchester Model 70 in .300 Holland and Holland. I have admired that rifle for decades when his dad had it.
 
You mis-spoke I believe,
Firearms used to be "Durable Goods"
But since 1945 all firearms are Consumables!
Read "Unsafe by Design" by Jack Belk.
It used to be on a free access site but I don't know if that's still offered.
 
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