What if this had gone further than just words?

[.cheese.]

Today I was out with somebody. I was in the passenger seat. As we were driving, somebody was jay-walking and we slowed down and came to a stop so that we didn't hit them (as anybody would do). All of a sudden, the guy behind us starts honking and signaling for us to move. We just assumed he didn't see that there was somebody in front of us and that we couldn't.

A short ways up there was a stop light. We came to the stop light and the guy quickly drives up to my side and opens his window and signals for me to open mine. I open my window and he starts screaming that we can't stop in the middle of the road like that blocking traffic yada yada. I simply said, "Sorry, but there was a person walking in front of us so we had to stop."

Oddly, he went NUTS. He starts cursing, spitting, using hand gestures, you name it and he did it. Who knows what his deal was.

Anyways, when the light turned green it ended as we both went on and fortunately he turned a short ways up.

My question is, what if he had gotten out of the car and started getting physical, and also - add in two scenarios, one where he has a weapon, one where he does not. Then let's divide the scenario of him having a weapon into subcategories - one with a baseball bat, one with a knife, and one with a gun.

Would you say that in all cases, the best course of action would have been to run the red light and get out of there? That's what I tend to think, but I wonder what your opinions are.

Also, pertinent information is that I was in a car capable of moving pretty fast if need be. It wasn't my car, but it was the same make/model just a different year. So I think it probably was capable of 300 hp or maybe slightly less as mine is capable of 306 hp and this car was not as new as mine but only maybe 1 or 2 years older.

 

[General Geoff]

Regardless of the power of your car, so long as you're not boxed in by traffic (and the car is not otherwise immobilized), the best course of action is always to drive away.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

pedal on the right. i'll give you the other side of it. was driving my friend who decided to stop taking his meds when he imagined the guys in another truck "said something" he went off was a psychotic nightmare. mind you when i asked what they said he couldn't tell me. no way to win in a deal like that

 

[justin 561]

Your driver could have easily hit the gas and been gone, situation defused.

 

[Treo]

If you can leave, do it. May not be the hard core internet warrior thing to do but it would certainly be cheaper in terms of legal bills later.

Scenario 1 W/ weapon: He's met the criteria for lethal force.

Scenario 2 W/out weapon and there's two of you and one of him? Not so much.

In all scenarios call the cops

Maybe offer him some chocolate milk?

 

[The_Sheriff]

Depends if he is trying to block your car from moving or not. If he had a weapon and you were boxed in I would try to move around find cover draw down on him and have your friend call the police/sheriff.

- The_Sheriff

 

[Rokyudai]

In the proposed scenario where he gets out next to you and you have a safe route to leave, I agree to drive away. You keep your head, cover, and he loses his dignity.

 

[esmith]

Your driver could have easily hit the gas and been gone, situation defused.

Not always, a lot of times if someone is angry enough at what someone else did in traffic, they will stalk them. Happened to my brother a few times.

 

[Funderb]

if you weren't such a nuisance maybe people would like you more.


here in florida it is okay to run clear red lights if you feel you are threatened. ESP at night.

 

[bogie]

Who cares?

Smile, and say something incomprehensible in another language which the doof won't understand. Lock the door, roll up the window, and drive away.

Max, Oleg, you reading this? How do you say "Your mother raised a jackass for a son" in Russian? Skunky, if you're lurking - Chinese translation?

Just remember - smile while you are doing it...

 

[lee n. field]

My question is, what if he had gotten out of the car and started getting physical, and also - add in two scenarios, one where he has a weapon, one where he does not. Then let's divide the scenario of him having a weapon into subcategories - one with a baseball bat, one with a knife, and one with a gun.

If he gets out of his car, stay in yours. If he has anything less than a gun, call cops on a cell phone, and otherwise be the sane party. If he has a gun, drive away.

 

[JWarren]

My question is, what if he had gotten out of the car and started getting physical

What you asked essentially DID happen to me a few years ago.

On my LAST night living in Orlando, FL I was headed out to a friends to have a going away drink with some friends. The next day, I was going to be taking a rental truck, loading my jeep on a trailer and driving 12 hours to my new home.

I was on Hwy 434 (I think) headed from my apt in Longwood to my friend's house in Winter Park. Near Maitland, I stopped at a redlight. I was behind another car on a 4 lane highway. I was in the Right lane, there was a lane on the left of me, and there was a turn lane to the far inside (past the left lane.)

So...

I am at the light, and I have the radio kinda loud in my Jeep Grand Cherokee with the windows rolled up. As I am waiting for the light to change, I am staring off into space out the driver's side window thinking about all the things that I had to do before I got on the road the next day. As it typically happens, I found my eyes focus on a bright spot: An illuminated Home Depot Sign in the parking lot over to the left.

In my peripherial vision, I see a guy in the passenger seat of a Silver Honda Accord next to me. The guy was a parody of a gangsta... I'm not making this up: He was a white guy in an Orlando Magic starter jersey. He has a hat turned semi-sideways. He has several long gold chains around his neck, and has a gold tooth. Ironically, he was being driven by an attactive preppy-looking girl.

Now, I need to say this: I didn't even notice these people until I see in my peripherial vision that he is literally screaming something out the window. I can't hear what he is saying with the windows up and the radio on. Being tired from a day of packing, I calmly gesture to him to "hold up" as I turn the radio off and roll the window down.

Hey, the guy may have something important to say, right?

No. I was wrong.

When I can hear him, He screams at me to "Stop looking at his girl!" Oooookay.... whatever.

Now, I'm tired. I'm really not in the mood for this, and I've never been in the mood to be bullied. I just smirk and say "Dude, I'm staring off into space. I couldn't care less about you or your girl."

I figured that ended that.

Wrong.

He jumps out of the car and runs to my window. Remember, this is happening in the timespan of a red light.

He reached into my window like he is planning on dragging me out the window. Ahh... but I have a secret weapon: Power Windows.

I just start rolling the window up and he wisely pulls his arms out of my Jeep. That showed him, right?

Wrong.

He now proceeds to beat his fists on my rolled up window. OK... I've about had enough. But I can't get away with the cars around me. We are sitting in traffic with cars in front and behind both of us.

But I really don't want said idiot to break the window out of my Jeep. So I roll it back down. Now he reachs in and grabs my shirt.

His eyes become fixiated on the Glock 19 that I had in my right hand (out of his reach) trained at his face. I didn't say anything. I didn't have to.

He jumps back and LITERALLY dives into the passenger-side window of the Honda Accord as I can hear him screaming "He's got a gun!"

The preppy-looking girl must moonlight as a NASCAR driver. As he is still getting in the window, she pulls into the turning lane to their left. She goes around the car in front of her, and runs the red light. She almost hit two cars. I see them flying up the road ahead of me and they are gone.

But I'm not ignorant to the ways of man. No, not by any means. I figure that at least a few of the on-lookers have already called 911. I figure that they have a good description of both of us, and I'm certain that they heard Pee-Wee G screaming about a gun.

I'm pretty certain that I'm going to be late to my going away party.

I was right.

When the light was clear, I pulled into a gas station just on the other side of the red light to wait for the police.

As it turns out, 4 other cars pulled in to wait for the police, too. They all called 911. And they all had both my license plate number and the Accord's.

And yes, they all heard about the gun.

The police came and took my statement. Then they took the statements of the others. Then they came back to me and asked me about my gun.

I said that I did indeed have one, and they asked to see it. I complied. But first I asked if he minded if I unloaded it. I stated that I don't pass loaded guns back and forth. Obviously, he said sure. I dropped the magazine and racked the slide to retrieve the round in the chamber.

The LEO said "Whoa... you had one chambered?" I said yeah.

He took my Glock and went back to his car. I presumed that it was to run its serial number.

When the LEO got back to my jeep, he had a big grin on his face. I asked him what was so funny.

As he is explaining to me, he casually hands my Glock back to me and he never says a word again about the handgun.

But as he is handing it to me, he tells me that he ran the plates on the Accord. It turns out that the car is registered to a Doctor in Winter Park in a VERY expensive suburb.

He says, I figure that he bought that car for his daughter and that Daddy's Little Girl must have a thing for bad boys.

He says that there are units enroute to the Doctor's house now and that he wishes he could be there when his precious daughter gets home.


The LEO shook my hand, and wished me a safe trip for the next day.




-- John

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

wait john... surely they proned you out and abused you... you don't suppose your attitude had anything to do with the way the cops treated ya do ya? that and that pesky thing of him running and you staying

 

[JWarren]

cassandrasdaddy,

I know... It was surreal. I treated him like a human, he treated me like a human, and he smiled and shook my hand.


I failed to mention this, however....

While we were all waiting for the LOE's to arrive, several of the witnesses came up to me (I was out of the jeep) and told me that they couldn't believe what they were seeing. All were positive about the situation as I handled it.

One older guy with his wife said that if I didn't do something, he was about take care of things. His wife was nodding in agreement.

Northwest Orlando was a nice place to live.


-- John

 

[.cheese.]

ok. So it sounds like pedal to the metal is the way to go as I thought.

I was just making sure.

I added the information about the car just in case anybody was going to say, "Well, if you have a car that's falling apart and incapable of getting out of there..." as that wasn't the case at all.

 

[mbt2001]

I know... It was surreal. I treated him like a human, he treated me like a human, and he smiled and shook my hand.

Fair play wins again... Can't hate on that.

 

[Blackbeard]

Two words: Drive away.

 

[Noxx]

I know... It was surreal. I treated him like a human, he treated me like a human, and he smiled and shook my hand.

I never cease to be baffled by the range of situations in which this does, and does not work out. Depends on the luck of the draw who responds to a call I suppose.

Many years ago, in another more irresponsible life I caught a DWI case. I was arrested by the CHP with my GF at the time in my truck. I was polite and compliant, they were polite and non-threatening. They even parked my truck in a nearby lot for me and saved me a costly impound. (they offered to let the GF take it home, but she couldn't drive a manual.)

In the same area, I've been verbally abused, drawn on, and hooked up on the curb for a broken light stop.

Just goes to show you never can tell, but it certainly pays to keep your own cool, either way.

In response to the OP, I'd drive away if I could, or smile and babble in Russian if I can't. I've defused a couple with that gimmick, although my Russian is horrible, I probably told the guy I had a mouse in my teapot, but whatever works. Those kinds of confrontations are so pointless, I'm not interested in going home a "winner", I'm just interested in getting home.

 

[Eric F]

Always try to evade first but lets say in any case he block you off and you cant back up. Stay in the car(if he does not have a gun) Shoot only as a last resort. The second he shows a gun start shooting!

 

[CountGlockula]

My question is, what if he had gotten out of the car and started getting physical, and also - add in two scenarios, one where he has a weapon, one where he does not. Then let's divide the scenario of him having a weapon into subcategories - one with a baseball bat, one with a knife, and one with a gun.

Drive away or stop the threat.

 

[FCFC]

My question is, what if he had gotten out of the car and started getting physical...

If he gets out of the car it's time to leave. If, and only if, there is no crossing traffic, it's OK to blow the red light. Make sure you have your cell phone and if he follows you even the least little bit, call 911 and advise them what is happening. Since you're the passenger, you can be a good witness for the cops.

 

[JWarren]

I am in agreement with what seems to be the consensus here in that Driving away is the best option.


However, just for the sake of progressing the discussion...


In the account that I gave above in this thread, you will note that both the attacker's car and my jeep had cars in front of them, behind them, and there was no way for me to go on the shoulder.

So I pose this question partly for sake of the discussion and partly because my account demonstrated a variance in the Drive away scenerio.


The question is... What IF the Drive Away option is not available.


And a follow-up question...

What if the ONLY direction that you can run away is directly through a busy intersection where you have a red light? The chance of avoiding a collision and getting hurt-- or hurting someone else is a very likely possibility here.


I'd love to hear your comments or views on this.


Thanks.



-- John

 

[Picard]

It's been posted before, but I think this is the situation that you're talking about. Too bad that woman didn't have a CCW.
If I had a gun, I would have used it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=i7CauVIDQ4U

 

[Rachen]

If you can leave, do it. May not be the hard core internet warrior thing to do but it would certainly be cheaper in terms of legal bills later.

The best and most skilled martial artist is one who avoids a fight in the first place.

 

[makarovnik]

In your neck of the woods it is OK to protect yourself. Where I live... not so much. Show him you are calling 911 and get his license number. If he gets physical best to whack him with something like a crowbar, otherwise put a cap in his butt.