What if US was like Pakistan in terms of gun market?

[dmxx9900]

Why cant the US have a legal gun market similar to this one since "we are the land of the free and the home of the brave"?
Get handguns for $50 and cheaper ammo
Be able to get real automatic AK's for under $1000
Be able to get a Rocket Launcher for under $1000
Be able to get any other gun I have not mentioned for a low price and not have to have a waiting period and no registration of any kind or the NFA BS.
Be able to shoot like in the vid and be able to open carry or conceal carry whatever you want anywhere.

I guarantee you that crime would be so low that we will be the safest country on earth because not very many criminals will mess with anyone anymore if almost every citizen has a AK slung over their shoulder or a SAW in their car.
This country would be truely free and I would be more comfortable to live like that instead of the way we live now where you have to be afraid of owning a certain semi-auto or having a shorter barrel for those really oppressive states.
And not being allowed to carry concealed or open carry for those leftist states that have all these restrictions and prohibitions.Tell me what you think of that idea?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGlHgeqWLFc

 

[BMW2]

So your saying there is no crime in Pakistan?

 

[dmxx9900]

I am saying that if we has a similar market we would have less crime then we do now but it would not be completely eradicated.Pakistan has crime and so does every other country.You cant completely get rid of crime but you can lower it to almost rare or uncommon.

 

[Bigjake]

Because readily available, cheap RPGs and AKs would just create more havoc than peace. Have you seen what a relative minority of critters have managed in Bagdad with said weapons?

I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.

 

[Larry E]

I personally don't see much need for an RPG launcher and RPG's for civilian use, but the bad guys apparently have very little trouble getting full auto guns right now although they're supposedly illegal without a license. Of course convincing the anti-gun politicians that anyone needs any gun is like talking to the wall, so there's not much chance of the NFA being changed anytime soon.

That being said I sort of doubt that crime would increase if full auto guns were legalized. People who aren't going to commit crimes aren't going to commit crimes because they have full auto guns anymore than they are with the currently legal for general consumption guns.

 

[dmxx9900]

Bigjake Because readily available, cheap RPGs and AKs would just create more havoc than peace. Have you seen what a relative minority of critters have managed in Bagdad with said weapons?

I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.

Gangs already are doing stuff like that but the difference would be people can actually shoot back and teach them a lesson for those that live.

 

[Rachen]

Because readily available, cheap RPGs and AKs would just create more havoc than peace. Have you seen what a relative minority of critters have managed in Bagdad with said weapons?

Um, we shouldn't have went there in the first place. There was no terrorists there to begin with, and the people there don't exactly like foreigners, maybe except tourists.

Why did the Boxer Revolution began in China?

 

[Rachen]

I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.

In an ideal United States of America, all gangs would be rounded up, taken to the desert, and shot, or sent to work in the coal and shale mines, where they will be fed nothing but bread and water, and kept there until they are killed in inevitable industrial accidents. That way, thousands of hardworking miners do not have to sacrifice their lives and health in the mines. Instead, they could work on the railways, where it is a alot safer, with more opportunities for advancement.

 

[mgregg85]

It is my personal belief that the second amendment should protect the right to own the basic weapons of an individual infantry man(in the least, not at the most).

From that point of view, your average law abiding american should be able to own an M16A3(or whatever the standard is now) or its equivalent. Whether or not citizens should be able to own LAWS rockets or RPGs is questionable but being that they aren't a crew served weapon, I feel that they would pass my standard.

Would it be dangerous if criminals got their hands on these weapons? Yes of course

Is that an acceptable risk to live in a free society? Yes, I believe so, freedom isn't free and part of living in a free society is accepting the inherent risks involved.

 

[mgregg85]

In an ideal United States of America, all gangs would be rounded up, taken to the desert, and shot, or sent to work in the coal and shale mines, where they will be fed nothing but bread and water, and kept there until they are killed in inevitable industrial accidents. That way, thousands of hardworking miners do not have to sacrifice their lives and health in the mines. Instead, they could work on the railways.

Whew, you were born a little late and in the wrong place. Stalin could have used you.

We have due process for a reason and cruel/unusual punishment isn't allowed for a reason.

 

[ChrisMG]

I wouldn't mind having access to those types of firearms, at least what the police departments have access to (I have no interest in an Abrams tank, but to each his own) which I think should be our right anyway.

Another reason I think (very far fetched but relevant regardless) is that we should be able to stand up against the government in case of oppression. Harder to do that when they have access to all the latest equipment and we get the gimped versions for high prices.

 

[againstthagrane]

i don't have anything against certain people being able to own the weapons listed by the OP, but i don't think any yahoo should be able to walk into walmart and buy a SAW or an AK without a background check.

 

[CBS220]

In an ideal United States of America, all gangs would be rounded up, taken to the desert, and shot, or sent to work in the coal and shale mines, where they will be fed nothing but bread and water, and kept there until they are killed in inevitable industrial accidents. That way, thousands of hardworking miners do not have to sacrifice their lives and health in the mines. Instead, they could work on the railways, where it is a alot safer, with more opportunities for advancement.

 

[Zoogster]

Those gun markets are illegal in Pakistan. The federal government just does not enforce it because they are tribal controlled areas (think militias) and they would not put up with the federal government coming in. They would resist as a united force. Which is exactly what they have been doing since the Pakistan government has had pressure to attack the same areas because they harbor "Al Qaeda" or Taliban. They are a region based on honor and loyalty, so follow the honorable custom more than the politicly correct one.

It also makes them more free thinking in some things.
Al Qaeda does not really exist as the media describes. In the Western Media Al Qaeda is used to reference people all over the world like they are connected or even share the same beliefs.
In reality what is known as Al Qaeda was a few people that set up militant training camps and had some power and influance. Many people not affiliated with Al-Qaeda then trained at those camps. All of those people are however considered and called "Al-Qaeda" in the media and by some governments. Anyone who associates with anyone who ever attended one of those camps also has "links to" or is "associated with "Al-Qaeda" since they know someone considered "Al-Qaeda".
That of course is absurd yet passes public scrutiny. It would be like calling any individual that took a training course at a Blackwater USA facility a member of Blackwater.
So by the same standard applied to consider people Al-Qaeda, numerous citizens including police officers and military who are not associated with or involved in the politics of black water are in fact "Blackwater" because they took a course at one of thier facilities or sponsored by Blackwater at some point in thier lives.
That also means all those police departments that have an officer who attended such a course have "links to Blackwater" or "members of blackwater" in them.
I bet that is a surprise to them.


My point is the Pakistan tribal areas see all that garbage and realize foriegn nations wielding great influance and power over even thier own government are so out of touch with reality, (or in fact in touch with reality and just choosing to exploit facts for various purposes) that they do as they wish. The "federal" law so to speak does not extend to thier area because they decide it doesn't.
Those markets are however illegal under Pakastan's laws.

The areas with those markets went to war with the government not that long ago, and the government called a cease fire. The American government is actualy conducting operations in those areas now too.

So these Pashtun people you are highlighting are in fact enemies of the American military right now, and due to foriegn pressure are now enemies with thier own government as well. Thier system of honor and integrity is conflicting with the politics of the world and is bringing a lot of headache down on them.
So enjoy the video, many are trying to purge that lifestyle and culture from existence at this time, and it may not be around much longer.

There is a picture of thousands of guns lined up on a street and a steam roller driving over them. That if I recall is in Pakistan being done by the "federal" government of the people in this video.
I will look for it and add it if I find it.

 

[Tommygunn]

I'd love to the price come down on NFA stuff as much as the next guy, but if you could get an AK with "da switch" at any fleamarket, the Brady bunch might actually be right for once when these idiot gangs start hosing down neighborhoods at random.

Those gangs are "hosing down" whatever they desire to as it is. It isn't too hard to convert semis to full auto. Even semis will fire quite fast too.
If you want gangs to stop shooting people, stick them in a prison. There will still be gangs there, too, but there seems to be fewer guns, if not shivs.

 

[Rachen]

If you want gangs to stop shooting people, stick them in a prison. There will still be gangs there, too, but there seems to be fewer guns, if not shivs.

However, in the Mojave Desert and the Rocky Mountains, there are trillions of tons of oil shale buried under thousands of feet of bedrock. There are methods of extracting the petrol out of the shale and using it to produce petroleum fuels of all different grades and scales. The method is expensive though. However, we can save hard earned capital on that by having a completely replenishable and inexpensive source of labor to mine out the shale.

Start with the murderous street gangs. Like Tookie William's thugs.

We only need limited guards to watch them, because it is impossible to escape the mines. The mines are located in the summits of inhospitable mountains. And if they try to escape by jumping onto the trains used to ship out the shale, they would be instantly obliterated by soldiers stationed on the locomotive and fuel cars.

Petroleum is not just liquid, guys. It also comes in solid form. And we also have a force of unpaid laborers ready to make the sacrifice for our nation, produce the much needed fuel for our economy and right their former wrongs.

Gangs are like a poisonous organic compound. Our economy and heavy industry is like a massive furnace.

Instead of discarding a poisonous organic compound, why not burn that compound in the furnace to produce more heat that could power the machinery and in turn produce more goods and capital. It is efficient. It is cheap and easily replenishable. It is worthwhile, and it will produce endless prosperity for our nation.

 

[Zoogster]

However, in the Mojave Desert and the Rocky Mountains, there are trillions of tons of oil shale buried under thousands of feet of bedrock. There are methods of extracting the petrol out of the shale and using it to produce petroleum fuels of all different grades and scales. The method is expensive though. However, we can save hard earned capital on that by having a completely replenishable and inexpensive source of labor to mine out the shale.

I would not support making criminal labor profitable even if it seems like a good idea on the surface. If government and contractors benefit from a larger work force and more people in prison, then more people will be put in prison.
Imprisoning people should not be a profitable business. It should cost society, and make society reserve it for very bad people because it is expensive.
Otherwise many people will be locked up, and for longer periods of time. New crimes will be created when the supply of prisoners does not meet growing demand and the labor force needed for production.
It gives incentive to essentialy have as many prisoners as possible because they become a slave labor force.

 

[Car Knocker]

I'd rather send the gang members to NY state.

 

[41magsnub]

However, in the Mojave Desert and the Rocky Mountains, there are trillions of tons of oil shale buried under thousands of feet of bedrock. There are methods of extracting the petrol out of the shale and using it to produce petroleum fuels of all different grades and scales. The method is expensive though. However, we can save hard earned capital on that by having a completely replenishable and inexpensive source of labor to mine out the shale.

Start with the murderous street gangs. Like Tookie William's thugs.

We only need limited guards to watch them, because it is impossible to escape the mines. The mines are located in the summits of inhospitable mountains. And if they try to escape by jumping onto the trains used to ship out the shale, they would be instantly obliterated by soldiers stationed on the locomotive and fuel cars.

Petroleum is not just liquid, guys. It also comes in solid form. And we also have a force of unpaid laborers ready to make the sacrifice for our nation, produce the much needed fuel for our economy and right their former wrongs.

Gangs are like a poisonous organic compound. Our economy and heavy industry is like a massive furnace.

Instead of discarding a poisonous organic compound, why not burn that compound in the furnace to produce more heat that could power the machinery and in turn produce more goods and capital. It is efficient. It is cheap and easily replenishable. It is worthwhile, and it will produce endless prosperity for our nation.

Wow.. seriously? You think this is a good idea? It's like either the pretense of a bad Sci Fi movie or the economic plan for China.

 

[abrink]

Well i'm not sure i like that idea. Not every citizen should be armed. Only the ones that are responsible enough to be able to be armed. I like Virginia's gun laws. If we all had Vermont concealed carry laws and Virginia's buying policy we would be fine.

 

[Zoogster]

or the economic plan for China.

No the economic plan of China would also include selling thier organs when they die from exhaustion. Just like they currently do with executed prisoners. The number of executions also goes up when the demand for organs goes up 'coincidentaly'.

 

[Rachen]

I would not support making criminal labor profitable even if it seems like a good idea on the surface. If government and contractors benefit from a larger work force and more people in prison, then more people will be put in prison.
Imprisoning people should not be a profitable business. It should cost society, and make society reserve it for very bad people because it is expensive.
Otherwise many people will be locked up, and for longer periods of time. New crimes will be created when the supply of prisoners does not meet growing demand and the labor force needed for production.
It gives incentive to essentialy have as many prisoners as possible because they become a slave labor force.

I agree with you on that. However, if I am a leader of this nation, I would be aware of the roots of criminality and have it purged immediately and relentlessly.
The media would have to be cleansed. Subversive music and music videos and movies would be strictly forbidden. And children, from a young age, would be taught the value of hard work, national strength, national pride, and patriotic sentiment.
Subversive culture such as "gangsta-ism" and "pimp-ism" would be exterminated. Even mention of such will bring harsh penalties. Those who proliferate subversive and harmful culture will receive the ultimate penalty. Such culture cannot be tolerated in a truly free society and must be STAMPED OUT!
An armed populace is a MUST in order to prevent the spread of criminality and moral decadence.
Instead, culture would be encouraged to flourish in the arts dedicating to the nation's history, revolutionary and patriotic idealologies of our Founding Fathers.
Our Great Leader Washington must be honored each year at Independance Day with a mass festival involving hundreds of thousands of dancers, singers, and acrobats to show the world our pride and the beauty of our arts and instill revolutionary pride in all people.
The most beautiful sights of a nation's prosperity is the towers of heavy industry and railways with thundering freight trains.

Our children and future generations will beam with pride, their beautiful smiles illuminated by the warm light of the Sun.

 

[Rachen]

Wow.. seriously? You think this is a good idea? It's like either the pretense of a bad Sci Fi movie or the economic plan for China.

Raw petroleum can be easily mined from shale. In fact, oil is only in the rock as a suspension. A volatile solvent such as acetone or ether applied to powderized shale will be able to isolate the raw petroleum and the mined rock can later be discarded. However, extra work would have to be done during fractional distillation to separate the solvents from the petroleum product.

However, I think we would make far more profit than suffer financial losses if we have a nationalized economy and culture.

 

[Limeyfellow]

Imprisoning people should not be a profitable business. It should cost society, and make society reserve it for very bad people because it is expensive.

Pretty much this. Prison has become a business and reputation maker, for people wanting votes and creating jobs and a look of competence. It was understood that this was happening in the 19th century and it will continue to carry on this way.

Heavy crackdowns on the gangs and sending them off to gulags creates more gangmembers and cause them to be more fanatical. Next you end up with siturations like in Mexico and Brazil when they start fighting with the police with .50 calibre machineguns and rocket launchers. We be much better off with creating real opportunities, a chance to get out of poverty and interaction with more stable centres of society, since deep down people tend to need interaction and socialisation to be well adjusted. Since they can only get it from fellow gangmembers, people tend to join the gangs.

Unfortantly that would result in way too many people out of work and easy campaigning issues to go away.

 

[Zoogster]

if I am a leader of this nation, I would be aware of the roots of criminality and have it purged immediately and relentlessly.
The media would have to be cleansed. Subversive music and music videos and movies would be strictly forbidden. And children, from a young age, would be taught the value of hard work, national strength, national pride, and patriotic sentiment.
Subversive culture such as "gangsta-ism" and "pimp-ism" would be exterminated. Even mention of such will bring harsh penalties. Those who proliferate subversive and harmful culture will receive the ultimate penalty. Such culture cannot be tolerated in a truly free society and must be STAMPED OUT!

You would destroy what makes the United States the United States in order to preserve the United States? Interesting logic. Throw out the Constitution and all its values because it allows subcultures we disagree with.

Hindsight is 20/20, so we are taught how evil various fascist movements were in history. However at the time they were not seen in the light we paint them now, and were exactly as you describe, and usualy widely supported by the population.
The end result though is never freedom or liberty for the citizens.