What is the best 12 gauge round for HD

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Hangingrock said:
With out being argumentative I'll ask this question for my own edification. Is this statement based on personal experience/experimentation or a documented study?
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Most studies show that birdshot has low penetration. It will do massive damage but may not penetrate deep enough to hit the vital targets that stop attackers.

IN my personal experience as a LEO I have seen several people shot with birdshot at fairly close ranges. These ranges are what you would normally find inside a house. For the most part it was not effective.
 
I have 4 different types of shells loaded in my bedside shotgun. Most of them are 9 pellet 00 buckshot. If thin walls are a concern then a HEAVY birdshot will be your best bet such as Heavy 8 (very common) or BB/BBB if you can find them. I have yet to see any T, TT, F or FF.
 
Hangingrock,

Both sources you mentioned, including an eyewitness account of birdshot failing to penetrate/stop someone wearing a leather jacket.

00 Buckshot is the most recommended 12 Gauge round for home defense because it works and it is readily available. #1 Buckshot may work better, but it is harder to find and except for the #1 Flitecontrol Buckshot it does not pattern as tightly in cylinder bore shotguns, IME.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
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I don't have to worry about over-penetration where I live, so I use slugs. Nothing fancy, the same stuff they sell by the ton during deer season.

I don't expect to be shooting at 50 yards, or shooting through car doors, but I can, if it comes to that.

The only advantage of buck (besides reduce penetration) is that you'll get a bit of a spread at household ranges, which might help turn a near miss into a hit. The advantage of slugs is greatly enhanced range and penetration, and a no-questions-asked terminal effect.
 
I cast #4 #0 and #00 so these are what I mainly use and I always keep slugs handy. I have not yet bought a #1 mold, but it's on my to do list. I recently purchased about a hundred bucks worth of federals PD low recoil #00, but have not yet had a chance to test it in any of my guns.

I also ordered a bunch of cheap factory slugs and buckshot just because it was cheap and made the order of federal PD worthwhile. When I looked at the shells I was quickly reminded of why I load my own as the slugs looked like they were loaded by a two year old and the federal which wasn't exactly cheap looked like it never made it to QC! any of those rounds would have never made it to the shelves 20 year ago.

To my surprise when I went to put this stuff away I ran across a sizable storage of other factory ammo I had purchased in the past and didn't remember. Among them were a couple cases of 3-3/4 dram 1 1/4 oz loads that were priced at $29.00 per case and I found a bunch of factory slugs and buckshot some of which were premium loads. I think I'll go shoot up this old stuff and see how it compares to my home made stuff.
 
I researched this long ago and opted for #4 buckshot. It's "enough" and "somewhat" minimizes excessive penetration in a semi-rural environment. If I can't stop the bad guys with 8 rounds of #4 buck from a semi-auto 12ga plus 17 rounds of 9mm HP then I'm most likely already dead.
 
2 3/4 buckshot. Or 3" if you must.

I hate all the new shells with zombies on the box or mix of small slug / shot.

Any buckshot will do. I promise.
 
Curious if anyone her has ever had to actually launch 9 big horrendous balls of lead at an intruder or whatever. I assume it would be an awful mess... I mean the stuff is more than capable of chopping down small trees. Not with one shot.. But one cant help but wonder what that load would do to a common human sized arm... or head... eek. Overkill.
 
Don't know what the best is but I'm currently using #1 buck for HD. I've been replacing that stock with 0 buck for no particular reason.
 
I use Federal XM12700. Plain old 00 Buck. Patterns best. I'm getting into 1 Buck a lot lately, though, so I might start using that if I can ever find some to test.
 
Best 12 ga. for home defense

Overall, 00 Buck . Any buck load, within average home confines will do, usually . Slugs in certain situations, and only if a center fire rifle is not available, in those situations. Buck first and foremost, and slugs as potential auxiliary .
 
Cheapest name brand easy to find 00 buck. If it functions reliably in your gun, go for it. 1 Buck is a smidge better if you happen to find it. 4 buck is ok for closeup, as long as you get the more powerful loads that have the penetration. If you live in a cold climate or where leather jackets are common, I`d go for the bigger buck.

Personally, I don`t like to sweat the small stuff and just buy 00 buck (and 2 or 3 buck for my 20 gauge). Exact knit-picky choice of ammo doesn`t win many battles.

If your concept of HD involves longer shots, such as on a farm or business, then splurge for flight control. Again, 1 buck is a smidge better but not enough to spend a lot of time or money looking for it.

In any case, pattern your ammo in your gun. Patterning is not rocket science: shoot an old tv or appliance box at 10 feet, 20 feet, etc. and measure the spread. If you keep changing ammos, you need to keep patterning!
 
Has anyone ever considered turkey loads? This thread reminded me of the time I was talking to an old turkey hunter at the range. We got to discussing stuff like home defense loads and such; and he told me he played around with some of his turkey loads in an old 12 ga. pump with a modified choke that was normally in his closet, (not his turkey gun). Said he shot them at home defense range which he considered less than 20 yards and they did OK according to him. I know turkey loads are kind of hot, (you can tell just by the recoil) and don't recall the shot size of his loads but he said if he ever got an uninvited "guest" at 3 a.m. or whatever then that 12 ga. with those turkey loads would be his home security system. Personally I'd lean toward 00 buck but would bet that those turkey loads would be a viable alternative. Has anybody researched anything on turkey loads for home defense?
 
I already posted that I opted for #4 buck. I guess I should qualify that decision with where I live and how a perp might be dressed. It's mid October and 90 degrees outside here... and this is with a cool front. It just doesn't get cold enough that a perp is going to wear heavy clothing at pretty much any time. And if they're wearing some type of protective gear then I'll just have to shoot them in the face. My laser sights are accurate. Too, I don't carry my shotgun outside on my little two acres. It's primarily for in-home defense so distance would be 10-30 feet so not too much shot dispersion.
 
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The advantage of slugs is greatly enhanced range and penetration, and a no-questions-asked terminal effect.
Click to expand...

Any reason to think that a slug would have any more "no-questions-asked terminal effect" than a heavy buckshot?

I load regular, boring Remington Express 00 buck because it's cheap, I can shoot/practice/pattern with it, and honestly, I cannot imagine a situation in which a the cheapo express load would fail to stop an attacker but "tactical" or LE load would succeed.

This is not like the hollow-point v. FMJ arguments that they have over in the autoloader sub-forum. With those, there is a significant difference in performance.
At 10 yards or less, when we're talking about something as powerful as 12ga buck, I really think we're just splitting hairs.
 
Slugs have a purpose. And that purpose is to more or less turn your shotgun into an almost accurate centerfire rifle at 100-200 meters. For the purpose of HOME DEFENSE, that is a distance where slugs aren't really needed. Any tight pattering buck or heavy birdshot will do the trick. Unless you are shooting someone with shells loaded with rock salt, hitting someone with bird or buckshot at 15 meters will give pretty much anyone pause. 00 buck is obviously the most recommend load on this thread for multiple reasons such as availability and a tested load with military and LEO. Buy a box of 3 or 4 different 2 3/4" 00 buck shells and see what patterns best for your shotgun at the furthest distance you expect to shoot. For example the largest room in your house.
 
In my mind, the argument about shot size is like this:

"Would you rather get run over by an 18 wheeler full of BBs, Or an 18 wheeler full of bowling balls?"

Yeah, the BBs probably weigh more, and the bowling balls will probably roll farther after the crash...

The end result, however, is the same. Anybody that manages to get on the receiving end of that is going to be flattened and it's not going to be pretty.

Personally, I chose 00 for my defense load, but I think anything bigger than a turkey load will work at living room distances.

As mentioned before, I believe that getting the load on target is more important than the size of the shot.

I hope I never have to plug a bad guy in my living room with 00 buck, but if I do then shame on the mess.
 
I have my HD 12 gauge loaded with 2 3/4 00 buck. On the side saddle I have a few slugs and a pair of #2 buck. I like to have options, but generally will rely on the 00.

Pretty much anything with 'buck' in the title would be a decent anti personnel round. Not knowing home layout or any particulars about distances and potential for innocents being injured due to over penetration, I can't offer anything else.
 
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