What is the most dead solid reliable pistol (autoloader) design ever?

[Onmilo]

The H&K has not been tested against the three competitors listed in my original post but the Germans said it killed off the Sig Sauer and Glock pistols during their testing phase for a new handgun.
It also wiped out the Walther.

H&K USP 9mm was adopted as the P11

The 1911 was wiped off the most reliable chart by the US Military replacement pistol testing in the 1980s.

Don't despair JMB fans, it wasn't wiped by much and the standards for all other pistols was set by the reliability standards of this design.

Also bear in mind that the 1911 control pistols were all used and at least 35 years old at the time of the testing while the competitors were brand new pistols.

 

[los]

Semmerling LM-4.

It only fails,...if you fail!

 

[kokapelli]

Well Bob, I'm sure that now you know exactly which pistol would be best for you.

 

[bobhaverford]

Right.

I own a Beretta 92FS Inox, Sig P226ST, a Browning Buckmaster and a Beretta Cougar on its way.

I'm thinking about a CZ-75 but was somewhat concerned about FTF and FTE.

The AK-47 is considered the most dead solid battle rifle ever devised. I was kind of wondering whether there was an analogous pistol.

I'd love to see the US military undertake another JSSAP including ALL modern designs. I'd say we're about due. While they were at it they could publicly test the different calibers with their requirement clearly stated and subsequent test results made public. Of course this would NOT lay the caliber wars to rest but, in all likelihood, would merely add fuel to the fire. Myself, I'm a 9mm kind of guy - spray and pray!

 

[kokapelli]

The AK-47 is considered the most dead solid battle rifle ever devised.

I would have to agree, but from my own experience, the AK47 has a very limited accurate range when compaired to an AR in 5.56.

 

[armoredman]

Bob, there are several AK pistols, and now even Century makes one, last listed through SOG for $600. Too big to carry concealed under anything less than a trenchcoat.
As for me, I worked on a rental range for a year an a half, and I saw them ALL fail, including the mighty G-rock, the venerable Colt, the indomitabls SiG, one after another, something broke. Yes, even my favorite CZ and CZ clones also will fail, given enough abuse. The ones who failed the least were CZs, (best), Rugers, (being built like a tank helps), G-Rocks, and Taurus autos. The ones who failed the most were, top o' the heap, HK USPs, Beretta 92, SiG 230, 220, and 226, Smith autos,(every one we had on the shelf), and Springfield compact 45s. We actually had both a Lorcin and Jennings on the rental shelf at one point, but they didn't last long enough to make an impression of anything but seriously ugly paperweight.
The only one I can never remember needing any serious attention,(think it broke a grip panel or something like that), and selling, (after years on the rental range, the worst torture a pistol can have), for more than we paid for it, was the HK P7M8. I couldn't stand the squeeze cocking grip, but that was one tough pistol.

Edited to add I had a very small sampling of these various manufacturers on the shelf, usually no more than 5 or 6 of each, so should NOT be considered a statistically significant "test" of any kind.

 

[camacho]

The AK-47 is considered the most dead solid battle rifle ever devised. I was kind of wondering whether there was an analogous pistol.

Yep, there is, manufactured from the same folks who invented the AK47. The name is Makarov.

 

[gbelleh]

There's no perfect design. I've personally had failures with 2 different Glocks, my Sig 228, 2 different Walthers, HKs, all 3 1911s I've owned. I've even had failures with a Bersa .380 and one of my Makarovs. I clean, lube and maintain all my guns with care, but mechanical things don't always work.

 

[doubleg]

As for the glock hysteria in the thread. I rented a glock the other day at the range. I had exactley 3 stove pipes and 4 FTE.And that was only shooting 50 rds.

 

[magnumcarry]

GLOCK

 

[possum]

Well according to the US Military the Beretta M92F and the Sig Sauer 226 were dead heat in their tests which were about as rigorous as testing can get but this was before the Glock was available and it has managed to pass some fairly complex shoot to destruction testing with flying colors.

not exactly, the glocks were around when the beretta's were tested back in the 80's. the canidates were, glock, ruger, sig, and beretta. the older model glocks had problems with the frames cracking when they were jumped in. the sigs had a horrible finish that would wear off to quickly, the bertta's were unliked by the service members testing the handguns, and the ruger was the most liked by far, for durabilty, and reliability aspects, but because of political issues at the time in the 80's the beretta was chosen.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Glocks were not rejected because of frames cracking. They did not meet the criteria because they were striker fired and had no external safety.

 

[JAMES77257]

I own six Glocks, one being a G22 w/ 15k rds, on 2nd bbl, NEVER HAD A MALFUNCTION!

However, I also have a heavily modded G35 I use for IPSC open class matches, If I dont clean it at least every 100 rds it won't run.

My answer, GLOCK, ( in factory configuration )

 

[Rembrandt]

....What is the most dead solid reliable pistol (autoloader) design ever?
....pistol must be reasonably accurate.....reasonably maintained....No additional gunsmithing....I'd like this to be a discussion of design and implementation of that design......this is a discussion of design and implementation of that design!

Hummm?....don't recall the question being exclusive to centerfires. Several rimfires come to mind that would possibly be better candidates. Rimfires receive little wear compared to the heavier pounding centerfires will see over a lifetime.

Colt Woodsman, High Standard, S&W 41's, Brownings, Rugers,......something to think about.

 

[North Bender]

Makarov.

 

[ajax]

Vern that was beautifuly said and I completly agree with you. In 4 short years the old 1911 will be a 100 years young and getting more popular by the day. It's been copied by just about everyone in the free world and won my heart when my father shot them in IPSC in the early 80's. I do like those BHP's though.

 

[Glockfan.45]

A Glock 17 is akin to the AK of pistols. For the record Glock was excluded from military trials because they would not release production rights to competing companies per U.S requirements.

 

[Cliff47]

I'll keep it short...

Single-Action: Browning/FN Hi-Power
Double-Action: CZ75B/85B

I own and shoot both.

 

[varoadking]

H&K P9S...unmatched accuracy and reliability...

...but clunky...for me anyway...

...sold mine.

The SiG P220, while accurate, is far from reliable (I like them though, and own one). Numerous PD's have turned them in due to breakage...

The Glock, while reliable, is far from accurate...

All IMHO, of course...

 

[usa1993]

GLOCK, POUND FOR POUND, OR UNDER DOG, IT WILL OUT PERFORM.

 

[Marshall]

JMB's BHP.

 

[MCgunner]

Quote:
Well according to the US Military the Beretta M92F and the Sig Sauer 226 were dead heat in their tests which were about as rigorous as testing can get but this was before the Glock was available and it has managed to pass some fairly complex shoot to destruction testing with flying colors.

not exactly, the glocks were around when the beretta's were tested back in the 80's. the canidates were, glock, ruger, sig, and beretta. the older model glocks had problems with the frames cracking when they were jumped in. the sigs had a horrible finish that would wear off to quickly, the bertta's were unliked by the service members testing the handguns, and the ruger was the most liked by far, for durabilty, and reliability aspects, but because of political issues at the time in the 80's the beretta was chosen.

Sure coulda saved us tax payers $$$$$$$$$$ if they'd picked the Ruger, but I guess saving money ain't high on the government "to do" list.

 

[Glockfan.45]

The Glock, while reliable, is far from accurate...

could be the shooter . I have never had a problem with accuracy. Its not my Kimber by any means but it has more than acceptable combat accuray which since the OP asked about reliablity not tack drivers I would assume thats what matters. Honestly Hk makes a fine gun but no better than a Sig, or Glock. All your paying for at that point is the name and I suspect lots of people would pay big money for a freshly laid turd as long as it has the Hk logo on it.

 

[BamBam-31]

The Glock, while reliable, is far from accurate...

I beg to differ. Greatly.

On average, I can hit the 100 yd. steel gong at Angeles Shooting Range maybe 8 out of 10 times offhand with my G17. I can do no better with my 1.5" guarantee Les Baer Premier Supertac.

IOW, I think it's safe to say that when people claim, "Glocks aren't accurate," more often than not it's the shooters who are not shooting up to their pistols' inherent accuracy potential. Could be the platform simply doesn't fit that particular shooter. Glocks definitely aren't for everyone. Doesn't mean the platform itself isn't accurate.

 

[hemiram]

McGunner said:

"I WON'T buy an AMT or a Auto Ordinance ever again.

I learned that lesson too. I didn't remember who made the turd until I read your post. I bought an extended slide SS 1911 .45 ACP in 81 or so (I really suck on dates) and it was a disaster! At first, it jammed because it was new, I told myself, then it was a bad mag. I switched it with a known good one another guy had and nothing changed. I trip back to Ontario, CA (I think that's where they were) accomplished nothing, except to give it a few scratches. I finally had a local gunsmith look at it, and he said it was very sloppy, but he could fix it, if I wanted to pay to do it. He did solve the major problem, the jamming in just a few minutes. It didn't jam too much after that, but anything other than hardball was iffy, at best. I sold it and ate my loss. My friend didn't listen and bought a standard sized one a few months later and it was even worse. He dumped it for a used Colt, and was very happy with it.