What is the next major advancement for pistols?

[Snowdog]

I certainly don't know what the next big things are going to be, however I have hopes. I hope the industry might introduce and develop smaller cartridges perhaps using a different propellent (like an extruded tube of Sintox or some other leadless primer-type material) capable of being safely fired from smaller firearms with fortified chambers/barrels.

It will likely never happen, but I would love something the size of a LCP II with a 13-15 round double stack magazine making use of a rimless .32acp-sized cartridge that pushes a 65gr-ish fluted bullet (such as the Extreme Defender) to something nuts, like say 1600+ fps. Yeah, I'd buy one. The only downside would be the challenges to reload for it.

Heck, I'd even go for a rimless .25acp sized cartridge with a 40gr copper defender-type bullets at 1700 fps so long as it's something the side of an LCP with a 17 or so capacity.

One can dream.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

A 40 grain bullet at 1700 fps is equal to a hypervelocity .22 LR. To make it a real defensive round, you would need a LOT more velocity.

The problem is, the laws of physics can't be repealed. The mass of the projectile times the velocity of the ejecta equals the rearward velocity of the pistol times the mass of the pistol. Now as you REDUCE the mass of the pistol, and INCREASE the velocity of the projectile, the recoil gets downright painful. That's why people who have lightweight .357s shoot them with .38 Specials.

 

[Snowdog]

I guess what I'm dreaming about is the ballistic equivalent to a 7.62x25 but perhaps with a lighter projectile traveling faster (to keep the OAL down) and formulated to be fired from a short barrel.

I imagine the recoil might be similar to a 9mm much like the 7.62x25 already is. I wouldn't want to fire that out of something the size of a P32. However, if it could be double stacked to 12+ rounds and crammed into something the size of a LCP but perhaps a little wider, I'd be all over it. The recoil would still be on the very unpleasant side, no doubt.

Something about driving a smaller and lighter bullet much faster and still achieving the 12" - 18" penetration window appeals to me, especially if it used a solid, fluted design to cause additional tissue disruption.

I dream of a 2021 Shot Show where Federal announces they've partnered with Sig Sauer and introduce the .327 Auto (resembling a stretched and rimless .32acp) while Sig introduced their 14 +1 Sig 327 that's identical in size to the 938 (and using Sig's 365 magazine witchcraft), with claims of sending the .327 Auto's 55gr Lehigh Extreme Defender to 1800 fps with minimal flash.

Some may have absolutely no interest in this due to it scratching an non-existing itch or perhaps the punishing recoil it may have. I'd be drooling to get one.

One can dream.

 

[Texas10mm]

I guess what I'm dreaming about is the ballistic equivalent to a 7.62x25 but perhaps with a lighter projectile traveling faster (to keep the OAL down) and formulated to be fired from a short barrel.

I imagine the recoil might be similar to a 9mm much like the 7.62x25 already is. I wouldn't want to fire that out of something the size of a P32. However, if it could be double stacked to 12+ rounds and crammed into something the size of a LCP but perhaps a little wider, I'd be all over it. The recoil would still be on the very unpleasant side, no doubt.

Something about driving a smaller and lighter bullet much faster and still achieving the 12" - 18" penetration window appeals to me, especially if it used a solid, fluted design to cause additional tissue disruption.

I dream of a 2021 Shot Show where Federal announces they've partnered with Sig Sauer and introduce the .327 Auto (resembling a stretched and rimless .32acp) while Sig introduced their 14 +1 Sig 327 that's identical in size to the 938 (and using Sig's 365 magazine witchcraft), with claims of sending the .327 Auto's 55gr Lehigh Extreme Defender to 1800 fps with minimal flash.

Some may have absolutely no interest in this due to it scratching an non-existing itch or perhaps the punishing recoil it may have. I'd be drooling to get one.

One can dream.

It's going to be damn hard to get 1800 fps with minimal flash out of a 3" barrel.

If you want it to be identical in size to the 938 then the cartridge can't be any longer than a 9mm, 1.169". That's not going to happen. Even the .327 Federal Magnum, where the CASE length is 1.2", which is longer than the CARTRIDGE length of the 9mm, can't get those ballistics in a 3" barrel.

Your dreams are bong dreams.

 

[Snowdog]

Your dreams are bong dreams.

Bong dreams are still dreams. I can see it happening someday.

 

[WTBguns10kOK]

Personally I think this woman was unwittingly ahead of her time. Heat seeking incendiary bullets would be a game changer and now is the time to figure it out.


As others have said, a round in the 25 caliber range moving fast is where it'd be nice to see progress since both the 5.7 and 22 TCM don't see ideal. With civil unrest brewing, seems like more people will be wearing vests.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Metallic cartridge firearms are a very mature technology. Ergonomics & aesthetics are about all that can be changed these days short of a switch to energy based weapons. There's just not much room left for improvement.

1) Materials. We already see amazing super alloys and high strength polymers producing handguns that are so light they're unpleasant to shoot much. 9mm and .357 magnum pistols weighing in under 12 oz, which many people have difficulty controlling (and making run reliably in the case of autoloaders).

2) Size. Related to materials, the diminutive size of current designs pushing "serious" calibers is about as small as we can get before they become truly unusable. It is possible to make a .357 Magnum that's the size of a NAA mini revolver which won't blow up, but it will bury itself in the shooter's hand. If the recoil is so ferocious you can only manage one accurate shot, the increased power is not an improvement. I'd rather have seven 9mm rounds than one .454 Casull or .500 S&W magnum if I should need to stop a 2 legged threat.

3) Magazine capacity. Also related to the above, we have duty size 9mm pistols packing 19+ rounds and .45 ACP handguns with 15+ that still fit all but the smallest hands comfortably. Striker fired pistols not needing any grip space for hammer springs & struts, grip frames of guns like the 19+1 Springfield XDm 9mm and 15+1 Remington RP45 .45 ACP are pretty much a contoured skin over the magazine. See #4 for why we can't do much more than that.

4) Terminal effectiveness. Again, limitations in size of a concealable firearm dictate that even if propellants are developed which could drive smaller caliber bullets from tiny cartridges at rifle round velocities to create rifle round wounds, there's no getting around the physics. I don't think most people would find the recoil pleasant with a weapon that accelerates a 55 or 60 gr. bullet to 2,800+ FPS in a 3-4" barrel attached to a 20 ounce handgun. The 5.7x28mm cartridge fired from the 4.8" barrel of the Five-seveN can only muster about 2,300 FPS with half that bullet weight. So, we're pretty much stuck with expanding bullets of at least .35" if we actually want to inflict a wound that will end the fight, and the expanding pistol bullets we have today are about the pinnacle of what's possible.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I want this, from the film Oblivion.

View attachment 823423

It's just a movie prop gun, but I seriously want to see development of hand held gauss weaponry, and I want it to look like this. With magnetic acceleration with sequential electromagnets to keep barrels reasonable, noise would be pretty low.
.

Rail guns are loud. A hand held rail gun may not be propellant cartridge loud, but even with small projectiles, bet on it pushing or exceeding the limits of hearing safe for impulse noises.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Rail guns are loud. A hand held rail gun may not be propellant cartridge loud, but even with small projectiles, bet on it pushing or exceeding the limits of hearing safe for impulse noises.

Ah, I suppose if you are breaking the sonic barrier that would be true.

 

[WestKentucky]

It’s all about recoil reduction for me. We have hit a point where recoil is a huge limiting factor in power which also plays into weight of a gun because weight minimizes recoil. I don’t know how to do it, but if I figured it out I think I would be a bazillionaire. Just imagine a Glock 26 sized gun in 10mm recoiling like a 22. Yes please.

 

[Jaywalker]

Liquid propellant and separate bullet/projectile cassette to allow dial-a-velocity changes, more efficient so less cleaning, less recoil, and more accuracy because of the velocity tuning. Breech might be more stationary since it won't have to recoil far enough to absorb a full length cartridge, and have two holes to recharge propellant and projectile. Mount the barrel low so the charging liquid can surround the barrel and keep it cool.

 

[mrmeval]

I guess what I'm dreaming about is the ballistic equivalent to a 7.62x25 but perhaps with a lighter projectile traveling faster (to keep the OAL down) and formulated to be fired from a short barrel.

I imagine the recoil might be similar to a 9mm much like the 7.62x25 already is. I wouldn't want to fire that out of something the size of a P32. However, if it could be double stacked to 12+ rounds and crammed into something the size of a LCP but perhaps a little wider, I'd be all over it. The recoil would still be on the very unpleasant side, no doubt.
One can dream.

.223 Timbs is a 7.62 x 25 that uses as standard .223 bullet in a sabot. It failed to gain traction even though it was rather remarkable.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/11/223-timbs-brief-history/

 

[foxmeadow]

A standard sized, integrally suppressed handgun.

 

[Enfielder]

.223 Timbs is a 7.62 x 25 that uses as standard .223 bullet in a sabot. It failed to gain traction even though it was rather remarkable.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/11/223-timbs-brief-history/

This requires some field research. Who has a 7.62x25 they want to donate?

On a slightly more serious note, Hydrogen powered caseless. Gas and projectiles in one magazine. Business in the front of the mag, party in the back. A srping would feed the projectiles as usual and gas pressure would operate the small internals to chamber and fire. Gas explosion would be contained by the "slide" that wouldn't slide.
I can't profess to knowing the amount of gas needed per shot for such a device or the energy in any certain amount of gas, but it would work. Maybe oxy/acetylene? Propane? Mapp? I'm open to testing prototypes if anyone wants to make one?
For all of you physics guys and gals out there, is it possible to have an appropriate amount of energy stored in a gas mixture toe propel a bullet or is it better to start with a solid propellant like we have now?

 

[MTMilitiaman]

We could bring back the .22 Boz...

 

[Texas10mm]

This requires some field research. Who has a 7.62x25 they want to donate?

On a slightly more serious note, Hydrogen powered caseless. Gas and projectiles in one magazine. Business in the front of the mag, party in the back. A srping would feed the projectiles as usual and gas pressure would operate the small internals to chamber and fire. Gas explosion would be contained by the "slide" that wouldn't slide.
I can't profess to knowing the amount of gas needed per shot for such a device or the energy in any certain amount of gas, but it would work. Maybe oxy/acetylene? Propane? Mapp? I'm open to testing prototypes if anyone wants to make one?
For all of you physics guys and gals out there, is it possible to have an appropriate amount of energy stored in a gas mixture toe propel a bullet or is it better to start with a solid propellant like we have now?

Hydrogen has a severe long time storage problem. It simply leaks through the metal. To get the velocities we currently expect from handguns would require a lot of gas. The energy density of smokeless powder is quite high. Remember we're converting a solid to a gas to propel the bullet. Starting with a gas requires a LOT of gas.

 

[<*(((><]

I think there is good room for improvement in the powder arena. Just look at what Hodgdon''s Leverevolution powder did for the 30-30 or the CFE BLK did for the 7.62x39 velocities. I'm sure there is powder technology that is more efficient while maintaining safe pressures. If one can find a powder that provides 5-10% more velocity while maintaining the same peak pressure on a handgun cartridge, that's something right there

Like has been said we are in the golden age of metallic reloading, but that's not to say there aren't advancement waiting out there to take advantage of.

 

[GEM]

A hypervelocity Gyrojet, that reaches usable speed right out of leaving the barrel. Of course, the back blast from such a rocket might not be good for you. Maybe wear it shoulder mounted like Iron Man.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've fired the Gyrojet -- it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Jessesky]

I think the next advancement is the development of new propellants. Todays propellants are limited to 5,000 FPS or so. Imagine a high velocity propellant in the range of 25,000 FPS like some blasting compounds are. If we can contain such a force, and not destroy the projectile, we would be able to make much smaller cartridges yielding the same power as full size cartridges in a smaller high velocity package.

Only a theory.

 

[mrmike7189]

Tazers .......we will all be carrying them?

 

[ilbob]

i do not see any really significant shifts in handguns in the near future (the next few decades anyway).

I think you will see some incremental improvements, but really, is a modern 9 mm pistol all that much better than a Browning Hi Power that was invented nearly 100 years ago?

I do not think higher velocity rounds will do anything for accuracy, and with a handgun accuracy matters a lot. I suspect that the recoil from such a very low weight and very high velocity round would make it difficult to shoot accurately for most people, and the blast coming out the front of the gun would be very loud and very bright.

I would not be at all surprised if 50 years from now we are still using the same cartridges in very similar firearms.

I am not a believer that electric stun guns are all that great of an option, even if the reliability and range issues can be resolved.

As for energy weapons, there is nothing on the horizon that even remotely suggests that a power cell technology will be available to power any kind of energy weapon in a handgun sized device. I would like a hand blaster though. It would be neat.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

For personal defense, handguns fall into two basic categories, ballisticly-- small bullet, high velocity, and big bullet, lower velocity. The former category might be represented by the .357 Magnum, the latter by the .45 ACP. Now how could you improve on those two, and still maintain a controllable package?

The .357 has been offered in small revolvers -- and as one writer said, such little guns change the recoil of the .357 from merely unpleasant to downright painful. Too painful for steady prolonged practice sessions. Most people who have such small revolvers use the .38 Special for just that reason.

Similarly, attempts have been made to hot rod the .454 ACP, but no such souped-up round has achieved much popularity, and for good reason. It's just too much for most people to handle.

So it seems to me that increases to powder efficiency and so on simply can't be translated into better performance, because we're already near the limit of human ability.

 

[Enfielder]

Hydrogen has a severe long time storage problem. It simply leaks through the metal. To get the velocities we currently expect from handguns would require a lot of gas. The energy density of smokeless powder is quite high. Remember we're converting a solid to a gas to propel the bullet. Starting with a gas requires a LOT of gas.

This was the reply I was anticipating. I figured that there was more stored energy in a solid rather than a gas but I was too checked out in high school to learn that relationship.
I'll go back to the drawing board.

 

[Mike .45]

As a few others have said I think it will be in optics. More Mini red dots and better durability and battery life. I think soon they will be as common as night sights.