What is the smallest centerfire cartridge?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Flechette, Oct 17, 2016.

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  1. Flechette

    Flechette Member

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    Just wondering...
     
  2. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    The internet says 2mm Kolibri.
     
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  3. Flechette

    Flechette Member

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    Whoa! That looks about as effective as throwing a dart. Much less than I thought.

    I am looking for something more like a .22 magnum but has a centerfire primer and a rimless design.
     
  4. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    For a rifle or a pistol?
     
  5. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    5.7x28 is as close as you will get without going to a weird wildcat.
     
  6. Ditchtiger

    Ditchtiger Member

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  7. jim in Anchorage

    jim in Anchorage Member

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    Are you talking about antiques or some thing you can by today?
     
  8. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

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    Depends on what your wanting to do. The 3 that come to mind are 22tcm, 5.7x28, and 25naa. There's always 25acp but it's not even in the ballpark of being a match to 22mag.

    Or go to weak loads of .223 Remington, Trailboss in the 223 sounds fun if it's not in a semiauto.
     
  9. JWF III

    JWF III Member

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    For rimless, the 5.7 would be the closest to the WMR. If rimless wasn't a prerequisite, .22Hornet would be even closer.

    Wyman
     
  10. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Seen a "17 Squirrel" at the club. A tiny centerfire wildcat.
     
  11. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    Yeah what do you use for criteria, caliber or round size/capacity or commercial/wildcat. For caliber as mentioned .17 REM for commercial. Small size would be 22 hornet I would think. Other wildcats though.:scrutiny:
     
  12. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    .25 ACP is much smaller and it is certainly not a wildcat.
     
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  13. wow6599

    wow6599 Member

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    .14-222 ....... according to the interweb :D
     
  14. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    Speaking of "weird wildcats", nobody will be able to convince me that the 5.7x28 is anything more than FN's realization that Melvin Johnson got it right with the 5.7mm Johnson (.22 Spitfire) round more than half a century ago.
     
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  15. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    I'd agree hdwhit, with the aside that FNH realized that for their purposes a slightly less powerful round that could run as a straight/delayed blowback was a better solution. Even though neither HK nor FNH won the PDW contract (due largely to HK crybabying) you have to admit there is wisdom in FN's gun being like 1/4 the price of HK's, and having a hell of a lot longer service life than four thousand rounds. Micro-magnums that run at crazy pressures are interesting, but they also lead to expensive (but interesting) design solutions. My chief desire for a locked-breech 5.7 is mostly rooted in reloading needs rather than market needs ;)

    Oh, and the smallest is probably whatever runs in that 1" long AK47 some Russian miniaturist dude made a while back
     
  16. Flechette

    Flechette Member

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    Pistol

    What I am thinking of is the Kel-Tec PMR-30 that can use a center fire primer for better reliability and perhaps a little more power.

    Being rimless it could be stacked in a magazine more easily.
     
  17. RX-79G

    RX-79G Member

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    That's pretty much an FN Five Seven. Low recoil, accurate, light, more powerful than .22 Mag, 20 round magazine. And it is a real military grade weapon. I really don't think there is anything else close.
     
  18. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    This ^^^^^^^.!!
     
  19. Sarge7402

    Sarge7402 Member

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    Actually the smallest commercially loaded - and you can get loads today still - is the 5.5 MM Velo-Dog. Charlie Askins used one in the 1930 chambered in a Colt Woodsman to shoot in the any centerfire national match.
     
  20. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    There is - or was - the very thing, the .22 CCM; Cooper Centerfire Magnum made specifically to emulate the .22 WRM in reloadable cases. It did not catch on and I doubt it is still available. If you want rimless, the 5.7 is about it. There are a couple of European rounds in the .32 ACP Magnum category, but they seem not available here, either.

    Just for history, there was, in the 1950s, the .22 JGR. Take a .22 Hornet, lathe turn it rimmed into rimless, shorten to fit a .22 LR action, neck with a sharp shoulder for headspace control.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  21. hdwhit

    hdwhit Member

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    barnbwt wrote:
    Keep in mind that the 5.7 mm Johnson runs at the M-1 Carbines' pressure limit of 40,000 psi. Certainly less than a "crazy pressure". Further, the Domican Republic's Cristobal sub-machine gun was a straight blow-back design that used the 30 Carbine round and while I am not aware of anyone adapting one to the 5.7 mm Johnson round, there is no obvious reason why such a conversion would have involved any thing more than changing the barrel and perhaps modifying the feed ramps to accommodate the more pointed bullet.

    Again, my point was that FN's 5.7x28 round, whether or not directly traceable to Col. Johnson's modification of the M-1 Carbine, certainly reached the same conclusion - half a century later.
     
  22. Deus Machina

    Deus Machina Member

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    Yup, 5.7 is probably the smallest you'll find at a shop.
    If you want to go weird, .25 Auto necked down to .22 or .17 sounds fun.
     
  23. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    shoulder
     
  24. franktheitaliantank

    franktheitaliantank Member

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    Well I'm gonna be repeating what others said but whatever...

    .25 acp for little pocket pistols
    5.7x28 for more powerful full size pistol
    Also .22 hornet (even though it isn't rimless) for revolvers.
     
  25. Archie

    Archie Member

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    You speak straight, Kemo Sabe! The purpose of the 2.7mm Kolibri was indoor (parlor) target shooting; the functional equivalent of 'darts'. I understand the modern game of 'darts' was developed by barkeeps in Britannia to keep drunken Roman soldiers from tearing the place with their spears.

    I was going to say .25 ACP for modern, available calibers. Perhaps .22 Hornet for rifles. Someone mentioned the 5.7x28 round; that is pretty small.
     
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