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What is the source of domestic anti-Americanism?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Fletchette, Feb 11, 2006.

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  1. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

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    I was perusing an un-named left-leaning political site, and noticed a thread that basically ranted about how people with pro-American bumper stickers were bigots. I have noticed this attitude from some Americans for many years now, and wonder where it comes from.

    Note: I feel that this question applies to this forum as it is definitely "political" and many of the posters on that thread immediately wanted to outlaw said bumper stickers (First Amendmant violation). This question is not intended to start a liberal-bashing thread; I would like to know how and why a literal anti-American culture developed in this country.
     
  2. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    They have "father issues."
     
  3. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I ain't a Pshrink, but I was raised by a Psych PhD, and have watched people for a long time:

    Low self-esteem. Inherent pessism. Often, a dislike of self. Focussed on abstractions.

    Often, a distaste for reality. Evinced by a lot of wishing about how things oughta be, instead of recognizing how things are and working within an existing system.

    Often, scorn for those who are "merely" practical. A common trait is the "I have THE answer; why won't you listen?"

    Method oriented, rather than goal oriented. This means a tendency to judge by goals, not by accomplishments. Most obvious when talking about welfare programs.

    Obviously, not ALL of the above in any one person, but there are commonly a couple or three of them.

    Art
     
  4. anthillsinrome

    anthillsinrome Member

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    I cannot imagine or remember any country/nation/government/etc. that has not had a share of detractors and critics within its own citizenry.

    Are there more such anti-American types here than would be found in most other nations? Maybe, but given our country and culture's tradition (appreciation?) of independent thought, unbridled free speech, and an ever-present desire to grow and improve as a country and a people, their presence might just seem greater than it is.

    Those you describe seem like fools, and both sides of the political spectrum here in the U.S. have more than their fair share.
     
  5. Libertyteeth

    Libertyteeth Member

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    In discussing "anti Americanism", a distinction should be made between opposing traditional American culture and America's tradition of individual freedom and liberty under the Constitution and Bill of Rights -- and opposing the policies of the regime currently in power in Washington DC. (Regardless of which party.) America is its people and its traditions, not a collection of power mongers sitting in positions of power, who generally do not have the interests of the people foremost in their minds.
     
  6. Malone LaVeigh

    Malone LaVeigh Member

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    Washed out of Four-dollar Bayou. Now I'm... somewh
  7. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

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    obcessive compulsive

    Try this perspective.
    Fuming, gold plated arrogance, alloyed with ever present child like self interest.

    It never started, but has been here all along. Example: the Americans here at the time of our Revolution, who, having witnessed the oppression of the King and his tyranny, sided with him against their neighbors and friends -regardless. Torries or liberals.

    Another forum subject is "Spies." The mindset is this. They are not satisfied that they know best for you and yours, but are compelled to eavesdrop, to insinuate themselves into THR and by guile attempt to make what seems to them to be logical arguments for the "liberal" viewpoint.
    Case in point. Some of the Bush depiction threads that give half truths, etc.

    You probably met some of these people as early as highschool or even gradeschool. You know, the student government kids who would decide the important school political issues for the subservient student population.
    How about the school newspaper kids? How many today are involved in the "objective" media the public is forcefed with?

    "We have met the enemy and they are us."
     
  8. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    While we plead to be left alone, others plead harder to be lead, for others to make choices for them that they can't or won't face. It's a mild form of the guru syndrome.

    These folks are seduced by the dark side of the left, and become their useful idiots, cannon fodder, and voterbase.

    The other disturbing factor is that all through our history, starting from the progressive era, and unto this very day, these coals have been nurtured in part by foriegn forces, operating in the shadows. It remains an open question as to whether that factor contributes greatly, or inneffectively to the situation.


    At the end of the day, the freedom hating leaders who are the identified problem children, the Kennedys, Kerrys, Schumers, Clintons and Fienstiens are only the tip of the icedberg. The base of the iceberg are the many who keep voting for them, seeing nothing wrong with the false promises they bring to the table.
     
  9. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    I am not convinced that you have established your ground rules here. You refer to "left-leaning", "pro-American bumper stickers", and imply at the end that some people are "anti-American". Could we go through the evidence?

    What does a "pro-American bumper sticker" say exactly? How do I get from there to "bigoted"? Why would anyone want to ban them? How could they possibly be a First Amendment violation?

    You progress from "leftist-leaning" to "liberal-bashing". Some regard those groups as hardly synonymous.

    There is an awful lot of code in here with no real focus. Could we start over with some real information, perhaps with fewer murky buzzwords?
     
  10. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    The kids from the 60's and 70's are big boys now. Hippy parents had their way with them.

    (This is a generalization. I now that there are very many non-socialistic people that were kids in the 60's and 70's)

    Itll be interesting to see things 20 years from now.
     
  11. anthillsinrome

    anthillsinrome Member

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    I agree that some clarification would be helpful.
     
  12. silliman89

    silliman89 Member

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    I really don't understand it, but I think it has to do with some sort of collective guilt. The people who always seemed the most anti-American to me were always the first to talk about genocide of the Indians, slavery, exploitation of Mexicans in particular and hispanics in general, the arrogance of manifest destiny, civil rights, feminism, etc. Hell the way they see it, we're the kind of people who even invaded Canada in two separate wars to try and conquer them and take over their land.

    To my mind, while I might oppose these sorts of things today :) , times were different back then. I don't feel guilty about the past. But I think that's the origins of it. That's why anti-Americanism is most prevalent on college campuses.

    Oh, and also they’re really mad about the way the Cold War ended 15 years ago. They think they were lied to, because communism is so obviously kinder and gentler than free-market capitalism.
     
  13. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    In two words: spoilt brats.
     
  14. Guy B. Meredith

    Guy B. Meredith Member

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    Uh, UC Berkeley?

    I agree with the self indulgent spoiled brats who have not had to suffer real life. Maybe drug deprivation during financially lean times, but...

    I found I had a very different attitude after 18 months of USAF duty outside 'the world'.
     
  15. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

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    OK. I deliberately did not mention the specific website, but I think it is fair to say that they are "left-leaning" as the members frequently describe themselves as such. The first letter of the website is "D"; I'll leave it at that.

    The specific thread was posted by a member who went to the grocery store and saw a car in the parking lot that had a lot of pro-American bumper stickers on it. The poster described them and they were pretty tame: "support the troops", American Flag, Veterans of Foreign Wars, WWII vet etc. The poster seemed to think that these stickers were tantamount to racism.

    The poster then went into the grocery store and saw the vet - an eighty something man with some sort of veteran baseball cap, and followed him to his car. The thread continued with comments like, "too bad he forgot what he was fighting for" or generalized comparisons to facism like "no swastika on his car?".

    The only way I could interpret this attitude was that any pro-American sentiment was thought to be evil, akin to blatent racism. This befuddles me. Where did such animosity towards one's country come from? I can say that when the tables were turned a few years ago, when Klinton was in power, gunnies did not turn anti-American. To the contrary, most of the complaints were Constitutional in basis.

    The people I described have an inate hatred of this country, and that will not change even if "their canidate" gets elected. Where did this hatred come from? I am not trying to bash liberals; I really want to understand what (if any) logic they use to support their opinions.
     
  16. River Wraith

    River Wraith Member

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    They aren't left leaning, they are communist traitors. I think they are just spoiled. They don't know how good they've got it or what it took to get it. They feel sorry for the rest of the world and think they can solve a problem created by socialist policies by throwing money at it...our tax money.
     
  17. Camp David

    Camp David member

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    Not sure why so much anti-Americanism presents itself!

    ONE THING THAT IS IMPORTANT...

    Whether or not you agree with Administration, or America in general, if you live here, you need to support Presdient, particularly now in times of war... for a period after 09/11/01 there was unity of spirit in America...same affter Pearl Harbor! Now it seems everyone is divisive... we have more to unite us than divide use!

    We are all Americans first.
     
  18. Fletchette

    Fletchette Member

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    Further clarification to my question:

    I have studied various political theories and understand their basis. For example, I understand the issues surrounding the start of Communism and understand the theory the supporters of Communism subscribe to. That said, I disagree with their core principals - that the individual should sacrifice his/her rights for the benefit of the state.

    With Facism (more specifically, Nazis) I understand their core belief (Jews were sub-human and "tainted" the race of the Aryans) and again, I simply disagree.

    With these enemies I understand their beliefs yet disagree with them. With the leftists that I referred to earlier, I do not have a clue as to why they believe what they believe. I am at a loss.

    So, I am asking if anyone here understands their basic beliefs, even if they do not agree with them.
     
  19. KriegHund

    KriegHund Member

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    Thats a foolish concept. Part of Liberty is about being able to NOT support the president and his/her actions if you so choose.
     
  20. gulogulo1970

    gulogulo1970 Member

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    If is fueled by self loathing in my estimation. It trickles down into a hate of country as a secondary manifestation of that loathing.
     
  21. GoRon

    GoRon Member

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    It is driven by a sense of powerlessness. "Their side" is out of power so they turn on those that have the power. The right and/or traditionalists see it as unpatriotic behavior.

    When the left is in power the right experiences the same thing except it is manifested in the "the country is going to hell in a handbasket" rhetoric.

    There was plenty of doom and gloom from the left when Reagan was president and more than enough of the "moral decline of the nation" during Clinton.

    The libertarians are Zen about it all because they know they don't stand a chance. They like to jeer from the sideline and be morally superior to both sides.
     
  22. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    There isn’t one, because “domestic anti-Americanism” doesn’t actually exist for the most part. It is simply a useless epithet thrown out by people not bright enough to understand and debate those who disagree with them.

    ~G. Fink
     
  23. bg

    bg Member

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    When you find out, let me know..
  24. antsi

    antsi Member

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    Unlike appeals along the lines of; "My brilliance and genius are just too difficult for peons like you to understand" which are so full of rich and meaningful content, and always add so much depth and insight to any debate.
     
  25. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    I don't know how many times I can say WRONG!!!! to that sentiment.

    But this quote always helps:

    "The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

    Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star
    May 7, 1918
     
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