svtruth
Member
I would think
that using a bayonet is an instantaneous time travel from the 21st century to the stone age.
that using a bayonet is an instantaneous time travel from the 21st century to the stone age.
What is wrong with a bayonet lug?
- Thread starter ol' scratch
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I was discussing bayonets...
and the liberal I was talking with said no rifle should have a bayonet lug. I asked him if the bayonet lugs should be removed from Mosin Nagants and Springfield trapdoor rifles too? He said yes............chris3
and the liberal I was talking with said no rifle should have a bayonet lug. I asked him if the bayonet lugs should be removed from Mosin Nagants and Springfield trapdoor rifles too? He said yes............chris3
xcgates
Member
I'm curious, did they say why they thought bayonet lugs should be banned?
Nushif
Member
As much as I understand how it doesn't make much sense ... I really do have to question the lethality of a bayonet in terms of like ... "Assault Weaponry."
I mean, I see why black may be bad, for some night fighting reason or somesuch, but I really don't understand the bayonet lug.
I mean, I see why black may be bad, for some night fighting reason or somesuch, but I really don't understand the bayonet lug.
thorn726
Member
from another forum >>
is this thread really old or what? it appears bayonets/ lugs are NOT illegal...or are they? ugg, confused.
also still searching for ANY logic as to why they were banned, not finding a single argument- and by any logic, i cant even find some wacko with backwards logic for a ban.
is this thread really old or what? it appears bayonets/ lugs are NOT illegal...or are they? ugg, confused.
also still searching for ANY logic as to why they were banned, not finding a single argument- and by any logic, i cant even find some wacko with backwards logic for a ban.
Owen Sparks
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This is the same logic they apply to pistol grips. Remember the thumb hole stocks? I know a guy wko ownes a "MAK 90" with a thumb hole stock no bayonet lug and no flash hider. These "evil" features had to be removed before it could be imported.
merlinfire
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It's what happens when you have people making laws about subjects they have little to no knowledge of.
They'd get more mileage out of banning the ability to gain weight. Sadly, its "that thing that goes up."
They'd get more mileage out of banning the ability to gain weight. Sadly, its "that thing that goes up."
straitnate14
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The army got rid of training with a bayonet a few years ago! I went to basic training in 2006 and we were showed a bayonet and told that we would never see them in our units so there was no reason to train with them.
Murphy4570
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***!
A bayonet belongs on the end of an infantryman's rifle and nowhere else.
Obsolete technology? Not if we ever face an enemy that outnumbers us 4-1, and SWARM over our positions! Bayonets are great for psychological warfare, and damn useful if you can see whites of their eyes, and more....
Read up on the Korean War, 1950-53. It may very well happen again.
Then again, I'm just student in History, not a professional infantryman, what do I know. (not being sarcastic)
A bayonet belongs on the end of an infantryman's rifle and nowhere else.
Obsolete technology? Not if we ever face an enemy that outnumbers us 4-1, and SWARM over our positions! Bayonets are great for psychological warfare, and damn useful if you can see whites of their eyes, and more....
Read up on the Korean War, 1950-53. It may very well happen again.
Then again, I'm just student in History, not a professional infantryman, what do I know. (not being sarcastic)
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
What bugs me about it is that it's one more pre-assumption that if you have a bayonet lug on your rifle, you will get (or have) a bayonet.
Which leads to the pre-assumption that if you have a baonet you will kill someone with it.
Men have the equipment that allows them to commit rape, too.
Which leads to the pre-assumption that if you have a baonet you will kill someone with it.
Men have the equipment that allows them to commit rape, too.
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lobo9er
Member
bayonet lug on a Mossberg 590 LEGAL & SAFE! Baynoet lug on a AR ILLEGAL & UNSAFE!
They dont even know the laws they have or understand them.
They dont even know the laws they have or understand them.
Nushif
Member
Actually ... I have a little story about this one.
Me and a guy from my unit, along with my wife were standing on Mary's Peak plinking with out shotguns one day, when he turns around and says "Hey guys. I've always wanted to do this!"
Next I know, he does a by the book infantry charge with an imaginary buddy, right up to the box we had been perforating, stabs it with his bayonet, lifts it up and shoots it off the bayonet.
In the mean time ze wife and I are standing there laughing. Covered in mud and gravel he walks on back and says "I needed that."
So, can we list bayonets as therapy now?
Me and a guy from my unit, along with my wife were standing on Mary's Peak plinking with out shotguns one day, when he turns around and says "Hey guys. I've always wanted to do this!"
Next I know, he does a by the book infantry charge with an imaginary buddy, right up to the box we had been perforating, stabs it with his bayonet, lifts it up and shoots it off the bayonet.
In the mean time ze wife and I are standing there laughing. Covered in mud and gravel he walks on back and says "I needed that."
So, can we list bayonets as therapy now?
loadedround
Member
I have to stick my two cents here regarding bayonet lugs. Several years ago (actually before 9/11) I belonged to a very active CMP shooting club and most of us shot M! Garands purchased through the CMP program. We competed against many Army reserve groups especially at Indiantown Gap in Anneville , Pa. Once we were invited to shoot one weekend at Ft Dix, NJ against some Army reserve groups. In checking New Jersey law, we found our Garands were classified as assault weapons because of the bayonet lug and we could not transport them in our POV's w/o violating NJ law on transporting assault weapons. Needless to say we did not shot at Ft Dix.
Carl N. Brown
Member
A military gun or replica should have a bayonet lug if that was part of the standard equipment as just a curio and relic or civilian marksmanship trainer.
If you do a strict read of U.S. v Miller (1939) if any gun is protected under the Second Amendment, the current military small arm suitable for militia training for voluntary service is the first protected. That logically includes pre-service training in any weapon one might encounter on the modern battlefield if/when called up for active duty. Everyone eligible for military service should be eligible to own and practice with an AR and an AK. And that includes a bayonet lug on the rifle. And a bayonet suitable for opening cans and sharpening tent pegs.
If you do a strict read of U.S. v Miller (1939) if any gun is protected under the Second Amendment, the current military small arm suitable for militia training for voluntary service is the first protected. That logically includes pre-service training in any weapon one might encounter on the modern battlefield if/when called up for active duty. Everyone eligible for military service should be eligible to own and practice with an AR and an AK. And that includes a bayonet lug on the rifle. And a bayonet suitable for opening cans and sharpening tent pegs.
The point I was making with the liberal was Mosin Nagants, except the M44 and M39, do not have a bayonet lug. The bayonet is mounted on the barrel itself and locks against the front sight. Same with the 1873 trapdoor rifle. Come to think of it, the MAS 36 does not have a bayonet lug either....chris3
Carl N. Brown
Member
Bayonet attacks are not a crime problem. The urge to ban bayonet lugs (and "shoulder things that go up") is pure holpophobia, a knee jerk psychological reaction to anything to do with weapons.
xcgates
Member
Ball, that would depend on what you define a "bayonet lug" as. I would define one as "something on the rifle used to secure a bayonet." In other words, baring something really strange, like strapping a bayonet on with a band, every rifle (with a bayonet) I've seen has some feature that is used to secure a bayonet. In the case of the Mosin Nagant, that same feature does double duty as the base of the front sight.
AlexanderA
Member
Back in the early 70's (long before any "Assault Weapons Ban"), the second factory to make the Armalite AR-180 was Howa in Japan (the first was Armalite's own facility in Costa Mesa, Calif., and the third was Sterling in Britain). Japan had a rule (perhaps written into its constitution?) that it could not export military weapons to any country currently at war. Since the U.S. was then involved in Vietnam, Howa could not send "military" AR-180's to the U.S. Apparently, the only thing that made the AR-180 "military" was the bayonet lug. So Howa hit on an ingenious solution -- it press-fit two little blocks in the notches on the bayonet lug, so that a bayonet could not be locked in place. When I got mine, it was 10 seconds' work with a punch to make mine "military" again. (I think I actually saved those two little blocks somewhere, in case I ever wanted to restore it to "original" condition.)
This was as much a fiction as Colt putting U-shaped spacers in the 20-rd. magazines of the early commercial AR-15's, so it could say they were being sold with "5-rd. magazines"). At one point, Colt even riveted these spacers to the floorplates. Even the riveted spacers could be removed with 5 minutes' work with a drill.
This is the sort of political correctness that doesn't see the forest for the trees.
This was as much a fiction as Colt putting U-shaped spacers in the 20-rd. magazines of the early commercial AR-15's, so it could say they were being sold with "5-rd. magazines"). At one point, Colt even riveted these spacers to the floorplates. Even the riveted spacers could be removed with 5 minutes' work with a drill.
This is the sort of political correctness that doesn't see the forest for the trees.
Carl N. Brown
Member
I was taught to block the weapon, take out the man, because just blocking the weapon would do no good, because the man is the danger, the man behind the weapon is the killer.
One of our local killers knifed a woman in a boarding house, beat a man and woman to death with a baseball bat in their home. In a nearby town, an ambush between drug dealers was carried out with Elmer Fudd single shot wabbit guns.
The problem is murderers and violent crimes, not my M1 Carbine or M70AB2 with bayonet lugs.
A couple of Knoxville police were interviewed about a proposed gun law: they pointed out that most criminals they encountered did not have guns, and those that did got them illegally anyway. The majority of criminals are not gun owners.
The NAS 2004 review on Firearms and Violence in looking at gun policies pointed out on "gun buybacks" that there were 6,500 homicides with handguns and 65 million handguns so a gun buyback would have to randomly select 10,000 handguns to get one potential murder weapon. The vast majority of guns are not used for crime and the vast majority of gun owners are not criminals.
Gun control is a huge waste, and banning bayonet lugs is a sign of a mentality hung up on unimportant trivia, grasping for control.
One of our local killers knifed a woman in a boarding house, beat a man and woman to death with a baseball bat in their home. In a nearby town, an ambush between drug dealers was carried out with Elmer Fudd single shot wabbit guns.
The problem is murderers and violent crimes, not my M1 Carbine or M70AB2 with bayonet lugs.
A couple of Knoxville police were interviewed about a proposed gun law: they pointed out that most criminals they encountered did not have guns, and those that did got them illegally anyway. The majority of criminals are not gun owners.
The NAS 2004 review on Firearms and Violence in looking at gun policies pointed out on "gun buybacks" that there were 6,500 homicides with handguns and 65 million handguns so a gun buyback would have to randomly select 10,000 handguns to get one potential murder weapon. The vast majority of guns are not used for crime and the vast majority of gun owners are not criminals.
Gun control is a huge waste, and banning bayonet lugs is a sign of a mentality hung up on unimportant trivia, grasping for control.
Davey Wavey
Member
Not only was the round live, it was LIVE!
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
On awakening this morning, thinking about this thread, I had the bizarre thought that since my SKS bayonet is chrome plated, it must be doubly deadly.
Don't know why I thought of that, but I hope Carolyn McCarthy doesn't think of it, too.
ZOMG! Chrome plated! And what about all those evil gun barrels that are Chrome Plated? Inside, where you can't even see it! Concealed Chrome Plating!
Aaagh!
<sucks down another cuppa good strong coffee, takes a wake-up shower>
The gun shop owner finding a .22 short, per Davey Wavey's post 70 also tickled me:
Really, I found it bizarre that the gun shop owner was so concerned and grossly exaggerated the danger of finding a .22 short. Either he's stupid, or he's trying to make a pointless point by spoofing British well-known paranoid concerns about these things. (Assuming the story wasn't just made up by the tabloid --I'm thinking, like The Onion would.)
Jeeze, and they'd call me paranoid because I carry a defensive firearm at all times.
I can't count the number of .22s I found in my car under my seat and in the cushions for years after I spilled a partly-used box of 50 in there.
OMG! What if you hit a bump and they went off! Hah, hah? What about that, hah? Why, you might get a bullet up your butt!
What if one fell out on the highway and a hazmat truck ran over it and blew out the tires! Hah, hah? What about that, too, hah?
Terry, 230RN
Don't know why I thought of that, but I hope Carolyn McCarthy doesn't think of it, too.
ZOMG! Chrome plated! And what about all those evil gun barrels that are Chrome Plated? Inside, where you can't even see it! Concealed Chrome Plating!
Aaagh!
<sucks down another cuppa good strong coffee, takes a wake-up shower>
The gun shop owner finding a .22 short, per Davey Wavey's post 70 also tickled me:
Really, I found it bizarre that the gun shop owner was so concerned and grossly exaggerated the danger of finding a .22 short. Either he's stupid, or he's trying to make a pointless point by spoofing British well-known paranoid concerns about these things. (Assuming the story wasn't just made up by the tabloid --I'm thinking, like The Onion would.)
Jeeze, and they'd call me paranoid because I carry a defensive firearm at all times.
I can't count the number of .22s I found in my car under my seat and in the cushions for years after I spilled a partly-used box of 50 in there.
OMG! What if you hit a bump and they went off! Hah, hah? What about that, hah? Why, you might get a bullet up your butt!
What if one fell out on the highway and a hazmat truck ran over it and blew out the tires! Hah, hah? What about that, too, hah?
Terry, 230RN
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Nicky Santoro
Member
What is wrong with a bayonet lug?
In some states the political hacks believe that the incidence of drive by bayonetings has been woefully underreported and that they need to protect us poor subjects from yet another evil.
In some states the political hacks believe that the incidence of drive by bayonetings has been woefully underreported and that they need to protect us poor subjects from yet another evil.
Nushif
Member
Epiphany!
I had one.
The idea of a bayonet lug or any actual "feature" being outlawed for no obvious reason isn't uncommon in pretty much every day life. As a matter of fact, even within the gun community we can see it.
Take for instance a range that has the rules of ...
"One shot per ten seconds"
"Three rounds maximum in a rifle"
"Six rounds maximum in a handgun"
"No shooting from standing."
"No loaded guns anywhere other than the firing line."
"No drawing from holsters."
These rules seem like more or less reasonable rules that don't really disallow any type of shooting or type of guns directly, but what it did was...
"No loud and obnoxious people we don't like, as we disagree with their definition of the shooting sport."
The same thing happened with the "Assualt Weapons" ban. they didn't say "No AKs, no M16, No LE type handguns." They said:
"No high capacity magazines.
"No bayonet lugs."
"No folding buttstocks."
"No Pistol Grips."
What the Anti's did here is say "No weapons that are in use currently by operational fighting forces."
I had one.
The idea of a bayonet lug or any actual "feature" being outlawed for no obvious reason isn't uncommon in pretty much every day life. As a matter of fact, even within the gun community we can see it.
Take for instance a range that has the rules of ...
"One shot per ten seconds"
"Three rounds maximum in a rifle"
"Six rounds maximum in a handgun"
"No shooting from standing."
"No loaded guns anywhere other than the firing line."
"No drawing from holsters."
These rules seem like more or less reasonable rules that don't really disallow any type of shooting or type of guns directly, but what it did was...
"No loud and obnoxious people we don't like, as we disagree with their definition of the shooting sport."
The same thing happened with the "Assualt Weapons" ban. they didn't say "No AKs, no M16, No LE type handguns." They said:
"No high capacity magazines.
"No bayonet lugs."
"No folding buttstocks."
"No Pistol Grips."
What the Anti's did here is say "No weapons that are in use currently by operational fighting forces."
Carl N. Brown
Member
[mock outrage]I WISH! Last weekend was the military match at my range, and ALL shots had to be taken from standing position only, ten shots each at three targets at 100 yards. My scores with M1 carbine were 82, 59 and 72 (of 100). If they had been sitting or prone, they all would have been in the 80's. "No shooting from standing." I would wish. Range rules were no mercy for old men.[/off]
BTW, I used a gun with a bayonet lug, folding stock, detachable box magazine, and Full Metal Jacket ammo known to have defeated Japanese helmets and body armor in WWII. If I could figure out what a "shoulder thing that goes up" is, I would have retrofitted one of those just to be defiant.
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