What is your AR-15 quality list?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Tortuga, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    It is not fair to compare an issue M16/M4 to a National Match rifle... off the shelf or otherwise... they are two very different firearms. My issue M16A1's (yes, I'm that old...) were sloppy, banged up, loose fitting, and certainly a parts mix-master after years of service. Colts are good rifles, but they are also a mechanical device, assembled by humans... so they are not always perfect. When I was in the Army, I never had a Colt... always GM HydroMatics and a single H&R... but they were all made under contract and were interchangeable with the Colt as far as I was concerned.

    Civilian AR's are something else entirely.
     
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  2. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Here's a pretty good article on the definition of Mil-Spec/TDP and has an older version of the chart included:

    http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/Combat_Tactics_The_Truth_about_MilSpec_by_David_Crane_Summer_2008.pdf

    You'll note that a lot of what goes into the TDP and mil spec are the inspection requirements.

    BTW Your accuracy expectation for military specifications are way, way, out of line with reality. The "mil-Spec" accuracy requirement for an M4 with with 885/SS109 is probably around 4MOA.
     
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  3. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    straight up anything you can buy from beownells, olympic , mod 1 sales, buy it build it, and its gonna WORK!:D
    Mil spec is short for military specification, right?
     
  4. Nature Boy
    • Contributing Member

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    I have an Armalite that has been a solid, reliable rifle for me.

    It usually doesn’t get mentioned in these “AR Ranking” threads, and that’s fine with me.
     
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  5. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    Back a gazillion years ago when AR’s were spanking new, you could count on quality if it was one of the ABC’s

    Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt

    In the FWIW category, I have a Windham Bushmaster that has never had a hiccup and is the most accurate rifle I have.
     
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  6. md7

    md7 Member

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    I used to get all into the minutia of ARs and lists, and tiers. Nowadays I just don’t care enough to keep up with what’s new and who’s doing what in the world of ARs.

    All I can say is my experience and knowledge are limited, I like BCM based on personal use, and I’d buy another one without reservation.

    There’s probably a million other makes/models that are every bit as good or better but I’m satisfied enough to stick with a plain Jane, FSB equipped BCM and I no longer try to keep up with lists.
     
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  7. army_eod

    army_eod Member

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    FWIW I just ordered an upper from Rock River.
     
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  8. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    From their website?
     
  9. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    Right...

    But. You see all manner of parts claiming to be MilSpec, but are they really? Did they actually have a copy of the specifications and drawings from Ordnance? Did they go through the inspection process? Are they made from the specific material outlined in the original drawing? Just because it's Parkerized and fits on an AR, doesn't mean it's truly MilSpec. Does it matter? Probably not so much.
     
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  10. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Well, "mil-spec" also has to do with design, and true mil spec includes a selective fire trigger system which is forbidden to the commercial guns we can buy at Academy or elsewhere. A AR-15 may be mil spec in the barrel, bcg, front sight, and everywhere else but it will not really be true "MIL-SPEC" without that fun switch.
     
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  11. army_eod

    army_eod Member

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    Yes. Every order is built to order.
     
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  12. 55fairlane

    55fairlane Member

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    Compass lake or white oak armament

    Rock River Arms, my national match still shoots awesome

    Do we want to go down the match rifle trail?
     
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  13. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    How long is the wait?
     
  14. Tortuga

    Tortuga Member

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    The S&W M&P Sport 15 is NOT a national match rifle through.

    Which is ironic.
     
  15. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    Sorry, I thought you were comparing that RRA NM to an issue piece... my bad...

    I would opine that if you flopped down prone with that MP-15 next to my Colt H-bar, and used quality match ammunition, the Colt would outshoot the M&P, particularly at longer ranges... horrible trigger not withstanding. I'm not a Colt fanboy at all... but unless the planets align, I find it unlikely an AR with a standard weight barrel would outshoot an H-Bar AR with good ammunition. Now... you slip in some 55grn FMJ... then all bets are off in that 1:7 twist barrel.
     
  16. md7

    md7 Member

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    Mil Spec is an abbreviated way of saying Military Specification.

    In regards to the M4/M16 family of weapons, Mil Spec is defined within the Technical Data Package (TDP) and lines out certain materials, testing protocol, assembly, design, finish, etc. Everything M4/16 related is in there.

    In regards to marketing, Mil Spec has come to mean whatever the company using the term defines as Mil Spec for themselves or whatever an unknowing purchaser defines it as for themselves.

    In reality, I’m unaware of any company that produces a purely mil spec rifle for civilian use or sales though some come close to it in many aspects such as barrel material, chrome lining, testing protocol, finish, etc.

    So there you have it. What it actually is, what marketing sells it as, and what the shooting public wishes it to be. It’s the shooters equivalent of an ink blot test in many ways.
     
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  17. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    Ranking something that's been mass produced for generations is going to be an exercise in futility.
    An Anderson that was built on Wednesday might be a better gun than one of the top tier guns thrown together Friday afternoon.
     
  18. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    I've got both and Larue is better and a little cheaper.
    IMHO the Larue is as good as Geissele.
     
  19. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    That's why the "old chart" was useful. It didn't rank, it just laid out features found in the TDP and whether or not manufacturers followed them. Here's a snip from the article I posted above:

    iJPUNpml.jpg

    This was compiled by gunsmiths and shops that worked on AR15s, a buyer could review and figure out IF that specification from the TDP was important to him or not. It also went a ways to end the "just as good as" type statements because the manufacturer adhered, or didn't.
     
  20. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    A few critiques of that particular chart. Instead of referencing "mil spec barrel steel" it should simply list the actual spec for the steel. Same for the barrel extension: what makes it "spec?" list the actual spec. Next: no spec listed at all for the bolt steel? Seems an oversight.
     
  21. mshootnit

    mshootnit Member

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    For example there were several federal law enforcement organizations who did issue Windham Bushmasters to their officers. I will attest.
     
  22. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    One of the CIA guys that was at Benghazi did a video years ago about his rifle. It was a cheap Bushmaster that he calls a "Frankengun", put together out of whatever parts he could find and afford. He used it as a contractor around the world and claims to still use it to this day.
     
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