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What Lever for untimely/bad/Grizzly encounter?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by NWAttorney, Feb 20, 2008.

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  1. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Well, yeah. I've put a .45-70 520 grainer straight through a North American Bison. Would have easily killed one standing behind it as well -- we actually had to wait for a clear shot, not in front of the bison, but behind it. No reason a Cape would be any different.

    But that was ideal shot placement through the lungs, not a desperate do-or-die shot at the enormous thick skull of something like a Cape Buff charging.
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Still, they have been stopping charging buff's since 1912 with a .375 H&H solid.

    A 420 or 540 grain Hammerhead 45-70 can't be lagging too far behind!

    It's not very likely to just bounce off!

    1224.jpg
    rcmodel
     
  3. kir_kenix

    kir_kenix Member

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    when i said the 405 gr hardcast is good for any game in north america, i didnt mean to say that the 45-70 wasnt suffecient for most of the big game in africa.

    what i meant is that i would feel comfortable killing any thing in north america with the 405 gr load...but i would want a 500 grain or stout 420 grainer for africa.

    ive seen some downright WICKED 45-70 loads for ruger #1's and converted mausers that would surely kill a an armored wooley mammoth on pcp, crack cocain, that wanted to eat human brains (hell, lets make him a zombie as well).... but i wouldnt put them down the tube of my marlin.
     
  4. Wedge

    Wedge Member

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    kir_kenix. I figured that was what you meant, I was just playing :)
     
  5. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    .45-70 Guide Gun, or Puma '92 in .454 Casull. I'm not sure there's a lot of difference, except the Puma holds more rounds.

    I'd use heavy cast bullets in whatever.
     
  6. MT GUNNY

    MT GUNNY Member

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    A stainless Marlin In .460 S&W would be nice !!!
    To bad it dont exsist yet!
     
  7. Harley Quinn

    Harley Quinn Member

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    The 45-70 is a heck of a weapon and so is the shotgun at proper range's of course. My thoughts are similar to what most of you have mentioned.

    I am not sure, the 35 Remington is ample at less than 150yds, it is a good one I am thinking if you go for the heavier bullets, because you can hand load, heavier and lighter and still have a lot of fun with it, similar to a 357 mag, only much more powerful, for the smaller game.

    For Grizz it might be on the light side though.

    HQ
     
  8. CZ223

    CZ223 Member

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    Hey Lucas

    We gotta get Marlin and maybe even Puma/Rossi on that. I would love to have a Rifle/pistol combo in 460.
     
  9. HOLY DIVER

    HOLY DIVER Member

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    i'd invest in hand granades personaly,lol just joking
    i'd be looking more toward a double action pistol in .500 S&W
    i meen if your in a bad spot i dout the bear is going to be 100yds out
    yup i'd carry a 35remenington for the deer(witch would prob work on the bear)and have a .500 as back-up on my side
     
  10. Beowolf1911

    Beowolf1911 Member

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    Browning BLR in 7mm rem mag, if it lives a 7mm rem mag with a winchester Balistic silvertip can kill it.
     
  11. Bitswap

    Bitswap Member

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    If a grizzly decides to move on you, you better be ready to shoot cause they move amazingly fast and will be on you before you know it. Pray to God he's doing a false charge or you see him first.

    IMO, a shotgun with slugs is the best route. With this agressor, double barreled. 45-70 will do the job, but more for hunting rather than being charged. If you've ever been in or near panic, you'll know what I mean. You'll be lucky to pull the triggers much less aim.

    A shotgun rifled for slugs will extend the range and you should conisder getting one dedicated for this. Chances are the grizzly will be within 50 yards when he decides to move. I'd also recommend a 44 mag revolver just to finish him off if you need to.

    All bets are off if YOUR hunting HIM...

    So, you want a lever. Want to stake your life on the fact the next round will chamber if you missed? If that's the case, go for a marlin 45-70. I'm a big fan of levers and revolvers but if I knew there were man-eating grizzlys out there, I'd grab the shotgun.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2008
  12. NWAttorney

    NWAttorney Member

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    Thanks. I'm doubting I'll every cross one, but just in case.. I do have a shotgun, and a .308. I think a 45-70 is perfect, with my son bringing the shotgun. Maybe we'll leave his .30 carbine at home.:)
     
  13. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    The .30-30 has actually taken many brown bear and griz. Some of the biggest Kodiak browns were taken before WWII with .30-30's and even .32-20's. The further people get from brown bear the bigger they think the necessary hardware must be. They're not bullet proof. The biggest mistake people make is hauling too heavy and slow a firearm. Bears die easier than many people think, but they move a LOT faster as well. Like Jesse Owens on meth. And dense undergrowth poses no obstacle to them, they plow around below it like huge torpedoes. Whatever you bring, be fast and accurate with it. This matters more than the ft. lbs.

    For defense, a modern Marlin 1895 in .45-70 will do nicely. Load with appropriate heavy hardcasts.

    The population there is still very small. You're unlikely to encounter one and if you do remember not to shoot unless you have to. It's a wonderous animal and nowhere near as bloodthirsty as the rep. If it was my broad behind would have been lunch long ago.
     
  14. Bitswap

    Bitswap Member

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    Ok, good call.

    Chances are your going to know what's going on. The grizzly will first shake it's head telling you "you don't antagonize me", then probably do a false charge. Unless he intends to kill you. You probably already know not to run, but to walk backwards slowly.

    Grizzlys don't look at us as food. Their main goal in life is to eat, get fat and raise their young. They really don't want anything to do with us. If they think you are a threat, they'll kill you and eat you.

    Bears bury their food. That's because they want the maggots that infest your body after you die. So if a bear 'kills' you, lie still and wait for him to bury you. Any movement will spawn another attack.
     
  15. 1200 meters

    1200 meters Member

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    444Marlin? Blitz
     
  16. Colt46

    Colt46 Member

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    Legacy/Puma '92 in .454

    With a good hardcast bullet will penetrate enough to take on the largest bruins. The rifles are easy to tote along every day no matter what you are out in the woods for.
     
  17. telomerase

    telomerase Member

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    Poppycock, old bean. An Armbrust recoilless will take down any bear. And the person standing behind you, as well.
     
  18. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    What's magical about a shotgun?

    Never had a feed problem with a shotgun?

    Pump guns have the added downside of no leverage to help extract a stuck round.

    If you're concerned about absolute reliability, Wild West has a few tweaks for the Marlin. Not cheap, but they make it even more reliable.
     
  19. diesel83

    diesel83 Member

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    Marlin Guide Gun .444 or .45.70. Be sure to nail your boots down before you pull the trigger, eh?
     
  20. arctictom

    arctictom Member

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    Shot a couple of growlers, 45-70 does a very nice job. I like the selection of ammunition in the 45-70 vs the 444 , personal preference .
    A 1895 marlin guide gun is a nice choice, I use 300 gr hollow points for black tail and load 540 hard cast solids for bears, from http://www.garrettcartridges.com/.
    No complaints so far , my best shot was 125 yards on a Sitka black tail , using Wild west Ghost ring sights/


    PS with factory ammo the Guide gun is a pussy cat, my wife can run through 15 of 20 rounds and think its fun , (she is 120 lb and 5'5")
     
  21. HM2PAC

    HM2PAC Member

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    Does anyone make a lever that fits the .338WM?

    Aside from something strange like that I'd go with the .444Marlin, .45-70, or 450Marlin.

    My .444Marlin handload uses the Hornady 265gr bullets,(very hard & very fast).
     
  22. usmcgrunt

    usmcgrunt Member

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    Alot of interesting info here! Anyone know where I can find an article by Bryan Pearce about shortening the barrel of a 1895 Guide Gun? I was watching Outdoor Channel last night and noticed Personal Defense TV was having an episode on this very subject! Tom Gresham(shows host) was using a custom Marlin 1895 Guide Gun with the barrel chopped down! The show centered around what to do in the event you were being charged at by a bear! The course called Predator Defense Course is given by Il Ling New an instructor at Gunsite Academy and she was using a Remington 870! Very interesting!

    Grunt Out!
     
  23. Harve Curry

    Harve Curry Member

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    Lever action only. I never shot a grizzly, but the new Chinese-Winchester copy of a 1887 lever action shotgun loaded with those hour glass/pellot shaped 450 grainer might be worthy.
     
  24. akodo

    akodo Member

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    my understanding is as follows

    the 444 was designed to take advantage of bullets intended for a 44 mag. Hence these bullets aren't very heavy for a 40+ cal rifle which means they don't penetrate well. Also, the 44 mag bullets were designed to be fired at 44 mag velocities, the 444 pushing them significantly faster has caused a lot of performance issues in tissue. I'd not recommend it for griz.

    also, the 45-70 in a lever action. Over-the-counter 45-70 ammo from the major manufacturers is loaded very lightly for fear of some guy sticking it in a springfield trapdoor rifle made just after the civil war and blowing his fingers off. Back in the 1950s when an old springfield trapdoor, at 80ish years of age, would have been encountered from time to time, this was reasonable. It isn't now, but that's the way things ahve always been done...

    However, if you are a reloader, or if you purchase specific loadings from some small ammo makers, there is what is considered "power level two" which is significantly more potent than the soft 45-70. It is designed specifically for modern lever action rifles.

    (There is also a power level 3, for extra strong guns like the ruger single shot rifles, there it is loaded to match the 458 winchester magnum, capable of dropping elephant and cape buffalo)

    the 450 marlin is for the most part pretty identical to the 45-70 power level 2, except as it is a brand new round no worries about it being put in an old gun and making it explode.

    I'd go for 45-70, even in it's softer loading it is still deceptively powerful and potent, and found on many gunstore shelves. Then simply reload or purchase power level 2 shells for your useage.
     
  25. HM2PAC

    HM2PAC Member

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    In 1972 when .444Marlin was chambered, it was true that the bullets were of inferior quality. Today that has changed. Quality bullets are available in varying weights up to 300gr from different manufacturers.
     
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